Devil worship as a brand

[shadow]

"Devil worship as a brand"!? Well, I suppose that the moral panic of the 1980's did boost sales, but I would rather not go back to those days. I remember hearing about kids in high school whose parents didn't want them to have anything to do with D&D because it was 'satanic'.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I don't get the impression that WotC is interested in marketing to-or is run by-adults.

It is a shame. There are certainly untapped demographics out there.

They don't seem to realize that their core market is adults and (secondarily) older teens. I don't know if they really don't know that, or if they're just trying to pretend it isn't true. Either way, it shows a serious disconnect with their customers.

 

[Morrus]

They don't seem to realize that their core market is adults and (secondarily) older teens. I don't know if they really don't know that, or if they're just trying to pretend it isn't true. Either way, it shows a serious disconnect with their customers.

Hmmm. I don't think you've been paying attention. They know damn well that their core market is adults; the issue of the "graying RPG market" is a major, major issue. It's been discussed endlessly, and there are no RPG companies, let alone the giant ones with massive market research resources, not acutely aware of it. It's a problem. Everybody knows this.

That's what 4E was. An attempt to engage a new, younger demographic. Replenish some of that greying blood. This is not a bad thing to do; indeed, it's necessary. There's a LOT invested in outreach into attracting new gamers these days - from WotC's worldwide Encounters programs, to shows like Tabletop.

Now, my point wasn't so much that. It was that when I was the kid that WotC is trying to attract, I was attracted to D&D precisely because it wasn't aimed at my age group. So yes, they need to address that age group, the teens - but I wonder if a good way to do that is to make the product a slightly forbidden fruit. Everyone at my school watched Robocop. And we liked AD&D because it was grown-up.

 

[DMZ2112]

Which is why Game of Thrones has done so well.

Game of Thrones' success has nothing to do with fantasy. It has done well because it leverages the tried and true recipe:

1) Take bloody violence

2) Add naked women

3) Stir until popular (about 3 seconds)

If that's the future of D&D I need to find a new hobby post haste.

 

[Morrus]

Game of Thrones' success has nothing to do with fantasy. It has done well because it leverages the tried and true recipe:

1) Take bloody violence

2) Add naked women

3) Stir until popular (about 3 seconds)

If that's the future of D&D I need to find a new hobby post haste.

That's incredibly cynical, and I don't subscribe to that theory. GoT has an important place: it is telling adults that fantasy isn't just for kids. Whether you personally like that particular take on non-child-oriented fantasy isn't the point; it's the fact that there is non-child-oriented fantasy. So you don't like this one; it's sending a message that there's an interested market and a demographic there, and it will be filled with a variety of different shows. You might like the next one, or the one after that.

 

[Raith5]

I think this issue could be handled - at least partially - by using and marketing different settings. I think of the Forgotten Realms as a mid teen kind of high fantasy world but maybe there is a room for a dark fantasy kind of the world (other than Dark Sun perhaps). Maybe this could be used to push along a few different fronts without annoying anyone unduly?

 

[DMZ2112]

That's incredibly cynical, and I don't subscribe to that theory. GoT has an important place: it is telling adults that fantasy isn't just for kids. Whether you personally like that particular take on non-child-oriented fantasy isn't the point; it's the fact that there is non-child-oriented fantasy. So you don't like this one; it's sending a message that there's an interested market and a demographic there, and it will be filled with a variety of different shows. You might like the next one, or the one after that.

I'll cop to being cynical. It's not that I don't see your point -- I don't think the LotR, The Hobbit, or Star Wars films would have been as successful as they were if there wasn't a strong adult audience for fantasy. Adults have even more reason to want to escape from reality than children, for the most part.

But I just don't think it's relevant that GoT is based on A Song of Ice and Fire, in a Nielsen ratings sense. I think it is relevant that it is another mass-market HBO offering with a token plot jammed between people stabbing each other with blades and penises.

I live in /terror/ that some CEO somewhere is going to make the mistake of thinking that GoT is what fantasy is about.

 

[Morrus]

I'll cop to being cynical. It's not that I don't see your point -- I don't think the LotR, The Hobbit, or Star Wars films would have been as successful as they were if there wasn't a strong adult audience for fantasy. Adults have even more reason to want to escape from reality than children, for the most part.

But I just don't think it's relevant that GoT is based on A Song of Ice and Fire, in a Nielsen ratings sense. I think it is relevant that it is another mass-market HBO offering with a token plot jammed between people stabbing each other with blades and penises.

I live in /terror/ that some CEO somewhere is going to make the mistake of thinking that GoT is what fantasy is about.

It's a lot more than that, but OK. Whether you like GoT isn't the issue.

Maybe some CEO somewhere might think GoT is the only type if adult fantasy there is. But so what? Some other CEO somewhere else will go something different, and some other somewhere else will to something different again. And the market will develop, diversify, and mature. These are good things.

I'd suggest holding back your terror.

 

[Celebrim]

I think D&D as a 'brand' *might* compete with mainstream fantasy brands by going more adult and playing up to 80s paranoia. Chick it up!

You know my opinion. I've stated it many times before. The reason D&D can't complete with Marvel, Disney, or even GI Joe is the occult scare. It was terrible (unintentional) marketing then, and it would be worse now. You couldn't even earn points for being rebellious with something like that now.

Discuss! How would you market D&D?

Recreate the cartoon on Nicklodeon/Cartoon network using something like the Avatar team. Give it a real story arc and a conclusion.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I would get Wil Wheaton to use 5E for his upcoming RPG web series.

Pay whatever it takes. Fund Tabletop. Buy him a hundred ugly sweaters. Just make it happen.