Devil worship as a brand

[pickin_grinnin]

Hmmm. I don't think you've been paying attention. They know damn well that their core market is adults; the issue of the "graying RPG market" is a major, major issue. It's been discussed endlessly, and there are no RPG companies, let alone the giant ones with massive market research resources, not acutely aware of it. It's a problem. Everybody knows this.

That's what 4E was. An attempt to engage a new, younger demographic. Replenish some of that greying blood. This is not a bad thing to do; indeed, it's necessary. There's a LOT invested in outreach into attracting new gamers these days - from WotC's worldwide Encounters programs, to shows like Tabletop.

Now, my point wasn't so much that. It was that when I was the kid that WotC is trying to attract, I was attracted to D&D precisely because it wasn't aimed at my age group. So yes, they need to address that age group, the teens - but I wonder if a good way to do that is to make the product a slightly forbidden fruit. Everyone at my school watched Robocop. And we liked AD&D because it was grown-up.

I have been paying attention, for a really long time now. I am fully aware that they see the "graying market" as a problem, and are scared by it. My point is that they don't seem to be willing to accept the fact that their strongest customer base is AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE adults. No amount of marketing to kids and teens is going to bring them to the game in any significant numbers. Some will continue to drift in, but that's a natural thing. Putting a lot of money and effort into marketing specifically to their age group (or changing the game to make it more "kid friendly") is not going to help that, though.

Roleplaying games had their heydey, back when video games were very primitive and no other fantasy gaming options were available. Since entertainment changed, though, it has become a much tinier niche market, and will probably remain so for the forseeable future. It is following in the steps of wargaming, which is largely (though not exclusively) a middle-aged and older male hobby these days.

RPG companies need to stop worrying about the long-term future of the hobby and the greying of the customer base, and stick to putting out products that are very attractive to their customers. The greying rpg players aren't going to disappear in ten or twenty years, just as old-style wargamers are still around.

 

[Celebrim]

I would get Wil Wheaton to use 5E for his upcoming RPG web series.

Pay whatever it takes. Fund Tabletop. Buy him a hundred ugly sweaters. Just make it happen.

Nobody watches Wil Wheaton but nerds. That's like marketing church to the choir.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Game of Thrones' success has nothing to do with fantasy. It has done well because it leverages the tried and true recipe:

1) Take bloody violence

2) Add naked women

3) Stir until popular (about 3 seconds)

If that's the future of D&D I need to find a new hobby post haste.

I would be more interested in 5e if they went that route

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Nobody watches Wil Wheaton but nerds. That's like marketing church to the choir.

Yep. That won't accomplish their goal of pulling in non-gamers.

 

[Morrus]

The greying rpg players aren't going to disappear in ten or twenty years, just as old-style wargamers are still around.

But they are disappearing. D&D is 40 years old now. In 20 years it'll be 60 years old. The founders of the game have already passed on. We're all gonna die, man!

 

[I'm A Banana]

But they are disappearing. D&D is 40 years old now. In 20 years it'll be 60 years old. The founders of the game have already passed on. We're all gonna die, man!

Man, I don't think WotC could pull off the marketing-D&D-as-METAL trick. There are just too many reactionary goofballs here in the US who are on the lookout for something to attack and create a media storm about how the media isn't paying any attention to it to get away with that.

I totally agree with your point that D&D should probably not explicitly TRY to be For Kidz(tm), though. That way lies pandering and madness.

D&D should just be quietly confident being a game of imagination and creativity and magical elves. The thing TTRPGs do that other mediums in this genre don't let you do is make your own story out of those elements. That's never going to have the broad appeal of "sit in a chair and be entertained for two hours!", but that's what a Drizz'zt movie is for.

 

[Shemeska]

All that paranoia, and O/AD&Ds more adult oriented writing and art, coincided with big sales. Of course, they still did the red box and the cartoon to broaden the market.

Maybe thats the trick, kiddie stuff here, naked Hecate there .

I'm not sure that I'd call some of the earliest stuff "adult oriented". With all due respect to the game's origins, it's often 'juvenile faux-adult' mixed with 'titillate teenage boys'. It found a market and it worked it well, but let's not call it mature themed. The demons and devils at the time were things to beat up and steal their stuff, not godless abominations capable of actually disturbing players. IMO it wasn't the actual content of the game at the time that seemed to dredge up popular, misguided attention to D&D, it was just the cultural baggage associated with the words demon and devil.

The mid/late 2e material on the fiends was IMO incredibly darker and more adult oriented than anything in 1e, with 3e and onwards building on that (varying by author in how successful it did so).

 

[Campbell]

Nobody watches Wil Wheaton but nerds. That's like marketing church to the choir.

I think there's plenty of room to get adult nerds into the game. There are plenty of people my age I know that read fantasy fiction, play euro games, play World of Warcraft, etc. that haven't ever played tabletop RPGs or are lapsed gamers.

 

[Stormonu]

Its odd 40k (and WHFB) can get away with having demons, but D&D gets grief for it.

And I'm not sure I'd call 40k/WHFB mature, but it doesn't seem its made them, their novels or the awful Ultramarine movie any popular than D&D.

I think the D&D brand can hit gold, I'm just not sure where. i don't think going "adult" by going GoT is going to do it, and I don't think going the demonic route will either.

Though I would kill to see a trilogy version of Dragonlance done ala the Lord of the Rings, rather than the crapfest animated movie we got. Dragonlance needs neither demons nor T&A to make it popular, and it could easily appeal to teen and adult. Someone just needs to put the proper work into it.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I think there's plenty of room to get adult nerds into the game. There are plenty of people my age I know that read fantasy fiction, play euro games, play World of Warcraft, etc. that haven't ever played tabletop RPGs or are lapsed gamers.

I think most would have tried it by now if they were going to.