D&D 5E Street date for D&D Next Starter Game is July 15

[koga305]

I'll offer a dissenting opinion regarding character creation in a starter set:
I don't think it belongs.

Character creation is one of the more intensive parts of the game. I think people should learn to play the game first and become comfortable with the rules. Then they can learn to make a character, and be able to make more informed decisions in the process.

I think the Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion Beginner Boxes by FFG are the new gold standard for how to do a starter box. Here's everything you need to start playing, literally within minutes, and set up to learn as you go. The characters are pregens, but you get to customize them as they gain experience. And both are followed up by FREE full-length downloadable adventures from their website.

That said, the Pathfinder Beginner Box from Paizo offers everything you're talking about plus character creation. Four pregens, an out-of-the-box adventure, rules for leveling up, and downloadable adventures/character content. True, the PBB costs about $35, but a lot of that is tied up in the tokens and map. While those are nice, 5E doesn't need them, so I think it'd be perfectly reasonable to offer:

• Four or five pregens
• Character creation/advancement rules (four races, four classes, up to third/fifth level)
• Ready-to-play adventure
• Further DM material (monsters, adventure creation advice)
• Dice
• Additional downloads (another adventure, perhaps another class/race or two)

All in a $20 boxed set.

 

[ccooke]

I'll offer a dissenting opinion regarding character creation in a starter set:
I don't think it belongs.

Character creation is one of the more intensive parts of the game. I think people should learn to play the game first and become comfortable with the rules. Then they can learn to make a character, and be able to make more informed decisions in the process.

I think the Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion Beginner Boxes by FFG are the new gold standard for how to do a starter box. Here's everything you need to start playing, literally within minutes, and set up to learn as you go. The characters are pregens, but you get to customize them as they gain experience. And both are followed up by FREE full-length downloadable adventures from their website.

I think a good starter set should ideally have both - A small set of pregens and a limited subset of the chargen rules so you can make more (and level up the pregens). It's all down to what the starter set is aimed at, really - I'd want it to contain enough material that a new group could actually play using it for a few weeks, only having to come up with adventures (help in the starter set for those would be good, too).

Of course, that's something of an ideal...

 

[I'm A Banana]

Character creation is one of the more intensive parts of the game.

Maybe for an introductory product then, it shouldn't be.

You can reduce the decision points and options involved in character creation, and STILL have character creation as part of the game. We know a lot of character elements in 5e -- feats, subclasses, etc. -- are going to be optional. Stick them on rails for the intro product, and roll with it.

Chargen should have a simple setting on the dial, too, and if it does, there's really no reason that simple setting shouldn't be in the intro set. Making a character is arguably one of the most fun things about D&D -- one of those things that explicitly has the player realizing this concept in their imagination, or exploring the results of die rolls. It'd be a pretty raw deal if the intro set didn't take you through that (even with a severely curtailed option list).

 

[ccooke]

Maybe for an introductory product then, it shouldn't be.

You can reduce the decision points and options involved in character creation, and STILL have character creation as part of the game. We know a lot of character elements in 5e -- feats, subclasses, etc. -- are going to be optional. Stick them on rails for the intro product, and roll with it.

Chargen should have a simple setting on the dial, too, and if it does, there's really no reason that simple setting shouldn't be in the intro set. Making a character is arguably one of the most fun things about D&D -- one of those things that explicitly has the player realizing this concept in their imagination, or exploring the results of die rolls. It'd be a pretty raw deal if the intro set didn't take you through that (even with a severely curtailed option list).

I think this is the one of the real strengths of 5e - the ease with which you can have a pared-down, simple version of most (Hopefully all, by release) classes and still not be underpowered.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'd like to see a starter that looks a lot like the BECMI red box, but still encourages buyers to later go out and pick up the three core rulebooks. ...

The old Red Box definitely encouraged people to go buy AD&D. If they make a starter set of that quality, and manage to leverage it to the same effect, they can afford to take a loss on it. I think they are likely to go that route--put as much as they can into that $20 set, or maybe even a bit more, and expect it to do heavy recruitment for them.

Of the vast number number of people who bought the Red Box and went on to buy AD&D, or even the Rules Cyclopedia, I doubt there were many complaining that they wasted money on the boxed set first. I hope WotC is thinking along those lines. Given the amount of examination of the history of the game that I get the impression they've been doing while creating this edition, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are.

If this product is /not/ Tyranny of Dragons...

Random Tyranny of Dragons question: Did they say that it would be a specific product, rather than a product theme? For some reason I just assumed it would be a focus direction for "the transmedia D&D stuff we're going to be doing next."

If the information is correct, the gap between the release of the PHB and the DMG seems very large. I wonder why they would do that?

I don't wonder at all. The DMG is not as far along in development as the PHB. Mike was recently asking on Twitter what sorts of questions we'd like answered in the DMG, in such a way as to be obvious that he had room to create entirely new material and put it in their--at least as it refers to DM advice. At the same time we were being told the game was 90%+ complete.

The "game" could refer merely to the PHB. Or it could be that the PHB was 99.9999999%, the MM was 98% complete, and the DMG was 80% complete. From the way they talked about fine tuning and bug-squashing, with minor math in the MM as the example, I wouldn't even be surprised if the MM were almost complete. One of the trade show leaks told us there were are lot of magic items and a lot of art to go with them. It's quite possible that the crunch in the DMG is almost done also.

It's quite possible that the last thing they are going to finish is DMing advice, and hence the DMG. That's probably a good thing. Get the rules out the design study, and then let the guys focus on making the best DM advice, world creation advice, etc, that they can.

 

[DMZ2112]

Random Tyranny of Dragons question: Did they say that it would be a specific product, rather than a product theme? For some reason I just assumed it would be a focus direction for "the transmedia D&D stuff we're going to be doing next."

Word from the PAX East panel was that it would be a stand alone product not requiring the PHB, DMG, or MM.

 

[fjw70]

Word from the PAX East panel was that it would be a stand alone product not requiring the PHB, DMG, or MM.

And someone reviewing Dead in Thay claimed to be a playtester for Tyranny of Dragons book 2.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Hmmm. So probably kind of what I was thinking, a theme-related group of products, but mechanically stand alone in not needing rules.

 

[Blackwarder]

I'm late to the party and haven't read the entire thread so let me get this straight.

July - starter set.
August - PHB
September - MM
November - DMG

Did I miss anything?

Warder

 

[DMZ2112]

Hmmm. So probably kind of what I was thinking, a theme-related group of products, but mechanically stand alone in not needing rules.

Ryan Dancey referred to Tyranny of Dragons as "a stand-alone product" in a tweet, and I cannot read that grammar as anything but singular. But I am admittedly hesitant to hang my hat on the precision of his language.

From the Escapist article on the panel:

Tyranny of Dragons will apparently be a multimedia event, taking place both in the real life D&D Encounters organized play program and in the Neverwinter MMO, as well as in other, unspecified media properties to be revealed "soon." Tyranny of Dragons will be a standalone product, entirely separate from the new D&D books. It also aligns with the way Perkins was talking about D&D - as a multiplatform entertainment experience tied to a central theme, not something that necessarily only exists as a tabletop game.

The new season of Encounters themed along with Tyranny of Dragons will be what was called a "superadventure" and was implied to be a nonlinear experience similar to recently released modules Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard.

Emphasis mine. It is not crystal clear, but for what it is worth I am personally expecting a great big adventure called "Tyranny of Dragons: Get That Foozle" bundled with a rules supplement come July 15. There may be other Tyranny of Dragons adventures, much like there were multiple Dreams of the Red Wizards adventures, but from the sound of things most of the Tyranny products will not be RPG books.

July - starter set.
August - PHB
September - MM
November - DMG
Did I miss anything?

Not sure where you got September for the MM, but otherwise that looks right.