D&D 5E The Bard: A missed opportunity.

[GMMichael]

I've always liked bards ever since they came out, but the 5th edition bard has left me with a bit of disappointment. This edition really could have had them focusing on their songs, but instead they are given 9th level spells.

I don't want most of their magical ability tied up in a spell list. In my opinion, that seems rather "tacked on". I would have liked to see bards with a few spell slots that go to maybe 5th level, to represent their dabbling, but their songs be what really brings the class out.

What do you think?

Bards have been awesome ever since Prince Edward.

Making bards casters is the safe move by WotC; it requires less playtesting of yet-another-subsystem: bard songs. It sounds like they're not really bards now; they're rogue-mages.

Well, you can reskin those spells, and turn all the fluff into music. Leave the mechanics in place.

Or you can wait for the splat book.

 

[Sailor Moon]

5E bard is the realization (ok, 4E did it first) that the second best at everything is not an incredibly popular character concept. Either they could have placed the bard in equal footing with the rogue as a damage dealer, and that would be really weird, or they could raise it to cleric/druid level in combat support, the choice they ended up making.

That said, it would certainly be possible to create an entirely new mechanic for the bard, based in the ability to sing songs instead of casting spells, but that would be awkward, in my opinion. I enjoy the fact that classes such as bard, ranger and paladin use spell slots to power special abilities and you can pretty much ignore that they are spells if you want to. A smite or hunter's mark don't need to be a spell if you don't want them to be, and the same is true of a bard's healing word. If their choice had been to create a specific song mechanic (or a smite/hunter's mark mechanic, for that matter), additional effort would be needed to balance it. Not worth the resources, if you ask me. I can easily pick my instrument as focus and consider that the spell descriptions are the supernatural effects of my songs.

I disagree.

This isn't a race first off so it doesn't matter who's in first or second.

There is really nothing much the bard can do that te wizard can't. That's the problem with relying on spell slots instead of unique class features.

Also, Wizards has transformed the bard into a musical wizard instead of their iconic jack of all trades. I also think you have the wrong idea of what a bard is and how it's contributed throughout the editions. The bard has always been the number 1 support class, especially in 3rd edition and Pathfinder. I mean you can't go wrong going into battle with a +5 to hit and damage right off the bat, not to mention the bonuses to saves and master of skills. They were the best at support even though they might have been second, as yoy say, in their areas.

 

[sidonunspa]

Ummm

maybe I missed something,

but how are the 5e bards NOT the jack of all trades?

they can know more skills then any other class in the game, they get 1/2 proficiency bonus to skills they don't have.. they can become better fighters or better casters...

they have flexibility like no other

they have spells from almost every spell list, and can learn spells they don't have...

what am I missing again?

Oh and handing people d8's is more then equal to a +5 in pathfinder...

 

[Andor]

The bard has always been the number 1 support class, especially in 3rd edition and Pathfinder.

3rd edition isn't "Always." In 1e to even audtion to become a Bard you had to already be pretty much a Fafhrd level adventurer.

You had to start off as a Fighter get to 5-8th levelm dual class into Rogue, get to 5-9th level, put on a production of "A chorus line" and if it got critical acclaim, the Druids would start training you as a Bard. They got Druid spells, learnt languages, could charm with their music and got legend lore.

They were, in fact, the first prestige class. A morale boosting support class they were not.

If I let the bard cast a spell like that, the wizard is going to say the same thing ("its either spellcastin or it isn't!!!!!") and then drop said fireball (or charm) on the king.

Or the GM could note that the Bard can use a musical instrument as his arcane focus and the Wizard cannot.

 

[Wrathamon]

They were, in fact, the first prestige class. A morale boosting support class they were not.

And, that is where they should have stayed!


3e+ bards are the MMO of all bards... lets stand and sing songs and play an instrument to buff and heal the party. I want to twist my songs to get two buffs. Hey were is my song that let's our whole party run real fast. They are the EQ/DaoC/WoW buff "support" character. No Thanks.

I prefer the Warlord in theme for a character that makes his party better. The idea of some guy playing a lute or singing songs, or poetry as my half orc tries to brain a dragon with his maul just doesnt sit well with me.

BUT, some people like that stuff!

I think the bard in 5e is acceptable. I think they are much better than the 3e era of bards, the 4e bard was probably the best mechanically (they didnt have the be the ultimate six man but could be a starting front court player!) I think mechanically they look great and probably are decent to play with. The Skald could be a Warlord with some re-fluffing.

Reading this class it doesnt look rushed at all and it looks like it had solid playtesting. If your problem is that you wanted a different mechanical system for something that works just as well as spell ... that probably would have been a rush job.

I could easily see a Battlemaster take on bardic songs that use a superiority die type trade mechanic to activate the magic. Give a Bardic inspiration die to someone affected by your song or trade it in for some magic zaniness!

 

[Pseudopsyche]

I love the 5e bard; my Adventurer's League character will be a tiefling bard (college of valor, soldier background). But I can understand the OP's disappointment with the design. For some of us, the bard is a kind of rogue, in the sense that all the classes can be loosely mapped backed to the basic four. With 5e, for the first time (to my knowledge), the bard is a kind of wizard, alongside the warlock and the sorcerer.

There's nothing wrong with preferring the bard to be a rogue imbued with some wizard magic and themed with music, in the same way that the paladin is a fighter imbued with some cleric magic and themed with oaths. It's just not the way WotC decided to go for the core bard. Perhaps they'll design a variant someday, or perhaps a third-party will.

 

[Jester David]

I'm really disappointed by the 5e bard. They turned the magical "dabbler" into another master of the arcane arts. And because they have 4 extra levels of spells, that means fewer bard-only powers and class features.
The counterpoint I've heard is that there's room for bard-only spells, but there's really only a couple and at low levels. The bard doesn't get anything unique to the bard after level 14, only improving a few powers and getting more spells. Whee.
They can't even burn spells to sing songs, like the paladin can burn spells to smite. That would have at least been a compromise between the full-caster design and the classic bard.

Bardic inspiration is also super weak. It's the bard's signature power but they can do it three times per day and it only applies to a single check and has a good chance of not doing anything.
If the bard uses inspiration on the fighter but the fighter never rolls below a 15 the inspiration was wasted. If the fighter never rolls above a 5 the inspiration is also wasted. If the fighter rolls a 9, uses the d6 inspiration and rolls a 2, but needed a total of 12 or 13 then the inspiration is wasted. If the fighter doesn't end up needing to make a check in the 10 minute duration, the ability is wasted.


I feel WotC dropped the ball on the bard. The bard is one of the harder classes in the game, doing so many different things and being so very different over the various editions. Yet they saved it for the very last package and had to get it right on the first try, then they had to rely on the much smaller pool of private playtesters. They procrastinated on the bard and had less time to make it work and it really shows.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Bardic inspiration is also super weak. It's the bard's signature power but they can do it three times per day and it only applies to a single check and has a good chance of not doing anything.
If the bard uses inspiration on the fighter but the fighter never rolls below a 15 the inspiration was wasted. If the fighter never rolls above a 5 the inspiration is also wasted. If the fighter rolls a 9, uses the d6 inspiration and rolls a 2, but needed a total of 12 or 13 then the inspiration is wasted. If the fighter doesn't end up needing to make a check in the 10 minute duration, the ability is wasted.

Not to mention that Bardic Inspiration only works on 1 character even up to 20th level.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I think I've been reading quite a different description of Bardic Inspiration from what those who are saying it's underpowered have been describing.

I don't have my PHB, but I seem to remember it being cha mod number of uses, can recharge on short rest with font of inspiration. Increasing die size, and variant uses depending on college.

 

[Hawkeye]

Bard's fighting.