D&D 5E The Bard: A missed opportunity.

[Gladius Legis]

Those use spell slots and not everyone is going to enjoy you casting spells in front of them, especially if you are trying to sway the king. They really could have been the masters of multiple actions by having multiple effects going on at once.

1) You forgot the other stuff that doesn't need spells, like Expertise, free choice of skill proficiencies and high CHA.

2) And even with the spells, how are other people even going to know that you're casting spells? For all they know, your verbal components are poetry and honeyed words, your somatic components are a few dramatic hand flourishes and your material components are a few notes on your instrument. And none of those spells I mentioned have a physical effect or manifestation, like Fireball or something, so they're not going to know you're using magic from that, either.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Don’t think of them as spells. Think of them as songs, and even rename them with more florid names.

 

[Paraxis]

My only complaint about bards is battle magic comes into play at 14th level instead of say 3rd. I want my bladesinger to attack and cast spells in the same round during the early game not towards the end.

But I love the 9th level spell access, and good if not great combat spells like stinking cloud, sleep, and so on. The fact they get magical secrets is amazing, plain and simple, they can cast 5th level paladin and ranger spells before those classes can, contagion spell for taking out legendary monsters no problem bard can learn that spell, it is wonderful.

I consider myself a power gamer, and one of my first characters for long term play is a bard, just amazing. Now I just need to create a new subclass that can do the battlemagic thing earlier.

 

[Sadras]

This edition really could have had them focusing on their songs, but instead they are given 9th level spells.

A bard generates magic (supernatural powers) through the use of his musical instrument (voice or otherwise). Whether you have it as a specific class feature or as a spell, you may interpret it as you want within your setting. Furthermore having his class features reskinned as spells, allows the Bard greater flexibility in the build and expands his utilitarian aspect. I think this is huge advantage and am surprised that others view this as a negative.

I believe there is a disconnect with people viewing all spells as WIZARD-like spells, it has to do with mind-set. For instance, I view the clerics/priests channelling divine magic through prayers, bards on the other hand resonate magic through song or music.

I would have liked to see bards with a few spell slots that go to maybe 5th level, to represent their dabbling, but their songs be what really brings the class out.

And this is the disconnect I was referring to. You view a bard as dabbling in magic and having supernatural "musical powers." I view the bard as activating this supernatural powers (magic effects) through music with them starting small, Animal Friendship (level 1), all the way to regenerating an ally's arm (level 7) to standing toe to toe against a howling demon and reverberating the effects of Power Word Kill (level 9).

If you want your Bard to dabble in WIZARD magic - let him take the Arcana skill, choose the Appropriate Background, select the Magic Initiate Feat and finally Multiclass. Furthermore spell-scrolls are easier to use in 5e.
The system is pretty versatile.

A bard was my first 3e character and I was somewhat confused about the split between music per day and spells per day. Obviously both are supernatural effects, why have two pools?

This.

Those use spell slots and not everyone is going to enjoy you casting spells in front of them, especially if you are trying to sway the king. They really could have been the masters of multiple actions by having multiple effects going on at once.

1. I do not see the problem with using spell slots. You'd prefer to use class feature slots?

2. Not everyone is going to enjoy you playing music or breaking out in song in front of them during a political
argument, while you are haggling, in the midst of a theological debate, requesting the guard look the other
way....etc
You are still viewing the spells as WIZARD-like.
So I don't get your "casting spells to sway the king comment" - was it any less rude when you had to break into a sonnet or start strumming your bouzouki while in discussion with the king? And it's not WIZARD-like spells. Its more of a musical strand/chord or at best a scale with the desired effect happening.

3. "Multiple Actions" like how? As in singing Frozen's "Love is an Open Door", while picking the lock of a door
and simultaneously casting Knock on the Lock chain securing the door?

 

[Sailor Moon]

When I say multiple actions, I mean being to initiate a buff aura that is continuous while still being able to cast a few spells or engage in melee. Then as they progress is level, be able to sustain more auras.

Spell slots aren't a fix and neither is reflavouring. This isn't about having to reflavour the abilities. If that were the case then we wouldn't really need rules.

Just houserule it isn't the answer I'm looking for.

 

[Pickles JG]

1) You forgot the other stuff that doesn't need spells, like Expertise, free choice of skill proficiencies and high CHA.

2) And even with the spells, how are other people even going to know that you're casting spells? For all they know, your verbal components are poetry and honeyed words, your somatic components are a few dramatic hand flourishes and your material components are a few notes on your instrument. And none of those spells I mentioned have a physical effect or manifestation, like Fireball or something, so they're not going to know you're using magic from that, either.

1) is fair comment, though I don't personally like the single tqarget buff from inspiration, or anything really.

2) Applies equally to wizards. Well maybe arcane foci are a bit more obvious.

Who needs buffs when you have Sleep and Hold Person/Monster to set up auto-critting?

But in case that's not enough, there's also things like Faerie Fire (advantage for everyone!) and Compulsion (opportunity attacks galore!). Plus whatever else buffs-wise the Bard wants to pick up via Magical Secrets.

Again these are wizard things. Magic secrets is great, at 6th level & higher.

Bards just don't do the things I want them to do very well. I like the non magical stuff except Inspiration but ths ability to group buff I like is not present. I think it would be easily fixed with a line of song spells that do buf - like Paladin Auras (which you can take with magic secrets & use better than Paladins except some small scaling issues)

The Bard feels bit rushed & incoplete to me, like the Warlosk & unlike pretty much all of the other classes.

 

[Sadras]

When I say multiple actions, I mean being to initiate a buff aura that is continuous while still being able to cast a few spells or engage in melee. Then as they progress is level, be able to sustain more auras.

Ok. Out of interest which edition provided the Bard with auras or is this something you would like? (apologies I'm not familiar enough with the bards mechanics through the editions).

Spell slots aren't a fix and neither is reflavouring. This isn't about having to reflavour the abilities. If that were the case then we wouldn't really need rules.

What in your mind is different between conjuring supernatural effects through the use of a musical instrument and conjuring magical effects which are equivalent to the supernatural effects through the use of a musical instrument?

 

[zoroaster100]

I like 5E bards better than all the prior edition bards. Before 3e they were too weak. In 3e and 4e the diplomacy skill became ridiculous with players thinking they could use +40 diplomacy to convince a king to trade his kingdom for a gold piece. I like bards, their spells and abilities, and the new take on roleplaying related skills much better in 5e.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've always liked bards ever since they came out, but the 5th edition bard has left me with a bit of disappointment. This edition really could have had them focusing on their songs, but instead they are given 9th level spells.

I don't want most of their magical ability tied up in a spell list. In my opinion, that seems rather "tacked on". I would have liked to see bards with a few spell slots that go to maybe 5th level, to represent their dabbling, but their songs be what really brings the class out.

What do you think?

I'm rollin' up a bard for my first official 5e outing. Seems to me that any spell with a verbal component is a song.

I sing to heal wounds, I sing to deflect blades, I sing to insult my foes and damage them with cutting words, I sing to win friends.

And if I'm not weaving it with magic, well, that's what the Perform or Persuade skills are for!

 

[Sadras]

2) Applies equally to wizards. Well maybe arcane foci are a bit more obvious.

I'd be willing to say that besides the obvious arcane foci, the arcane words said aloud by a wizard are very much different to the words sung by the bard, even the gestures would be different. The bard's would imitate that of a composer while a wizard's would might be more attuned with sign-language perhaps.

Essentially I would allow the delivery of the spell by the wizard to be easier identifiable, compared to that of the bard's, which would be trickier to pick up, but that is me and my campaign.