D&D 5E Silly/Senseless Rules You Have Found

[Lerysh]

So with your "tool: lute" proficiency when the DM says you need to judge between two lutes to find the better one. What do you do? My point here is, there are probably many uses of a tool where not actually having the tool in hand could be a thing a DM could make a call for. Treating them as tools you either have to overlap with skills or you simply have those potential rolls vanish or perhaps get rolled into just a stat check. Breaking them up seems to cause more rules to appear when less is usually better.

Intellegence (Appraisal) Check!

Also, if you are judging 2 Lutes, do you not have 2 tools with which to make your judgement?

 

[Tormyr]

Ok taking this back to the original question. I think this is a distinction that could be confusing to newer players. They use the same rules as skills but are instead tools and then tack on the narrative tool training to them. I think this is a silly/senseless rule. Feel free to disagree. I don't mind.



Cantrips are a tweak that I did not like. It is actually one of the biggest flavor changes from previous editions. 5e feels like older editions except for cantrips. Spamming blasts was not a feature of low level casters. It happened later on with wands, like I said. Were wands over powered, I have made that case before. Trickily, are cantrips overpowered for you... hmm, you seem to think so.

So you don't think I am side stepping your wand subsystem remark. Spells will be put into magic items. Yes a subsystem but no it does not impact the validity of if the cantrip subsystem is warranted or not.

I will disagree.

Tools have caused no confusion at our table. New players probably actually have it easier as they don't have to look at it through glasses colored by previous editions. The proficiency rules are the same for everything except armor: you add your proficiency bonus on top of your dice roll (and ability modifier if it applies).

Cantrips are just level 0 spells that have infinite slots. Really they are just letting the wizard cast basic spells instead of having to use a crossbow or sling. I personally would not call them a separate subsystem.

 

[Lerysh]

Where that analogy breaks down is here: Wizards can not copy more cantrips into their spellbook, hence the silly/quirky rule interaction.

Personally I have no problem with allowing wizards to have all the cantrips they could ever want, at 1/2 page per spell in their tomes, and having the number of PREPARED cantrips be equal to the column of cantrips known.

 

[Tormyr]

Where that analogy breaks down is here: Wizards can not copy more cantrips into their spellbook, hence the silly/quirky rule interaction.

Personally I have no problem with allowing wizards to have all the cantrips they could ever want, at 1/2 page per spell in their tomes, and having the number of PREPARED cantrips be equal to the column of cantrips known.

Because it takes time to burn a cantrip into your brain. Eventually you can burn an additional cantrip in your brain. Later on, you can burn a level 1, 2, and 3 spell in your brain.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd rather loot a judge than judge a lute.

Actually, a quick OT question. Proficiency in thieves tools gives you your proficiency bonus on Dex checks to unlock doors, disarm traps, etc. How (if at all) does that interact with Sleight of Hand? And finally, does having proficiency in a musical instrument give any mechanical advantage to a Perform check?

 

[Paraxis]

Performance.
Your Charisma(Performance) check determines how well you can delight an audience with music, dance, acting, storytelling, or some other form of entertainment.

It says music, I take that as singing or other forms of music you don't use a tool for.

Musical Instruments
Several of the most common types of musical instruments are shown on the table as examples. If you have proficiency with a given musical instrument, you can add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to play music with the instrument.

Instruments are tools, you don't use performance when playing a musical instrument you use your tool proficiency.

Now when a character plays a stringed instrument and sings, I would have them make two rolls and basically take the average to see how well the total performance went.

 

[Tormyr]

I'd rather loot a judge than judge a lute.

Actually, a quick OT question. Proficiency in thieves tools gives you your proficiency bonus on Dex checks to unlock doors, disarm traps, etc. How (if at all) does that interact with Sleight of Hand? And finally, does having proficiency in a musical instrument give any mechanical advantage to a Perform check?

Thieves tools are specifically for picking locks and disarming traps. I don't think using a pair of pliers makes you better at picking pockets.
Instruments proficiency is used when playing an instrument.
Performance is used when doing "music, dance, acting, storytelling, or some other form of entertainment". Musical instruments are not included in this list.

EDIT: Beware ninjas

 

[nomotog]

Dose the overlap with skills and tools matter? Proficiency bonuses don't stack so it shouldn't be a big uses to have a task with multiple opportunities to be proficient in it or am I missing something?

 

[SilverfireSage]

Dose the overlap with skills and tools matter? Proficiency bonuses don't stack so it shouldn't be a big uses to have a task with multiple opportunities to be proficient in it or am I missing something?

There shouldn't be any overlap with skills and tools. The only one I can think of is Perform, in which no, it wouldn't stack, because you're just using one thing either the instrument or your singing/acting/etc. So no, there is no use to have multiple proficiencies because there are no overlapping ones. Remember, tools are things that you wouldn't normally be able to do without the tool.

 

[nomotog]

There shouldn't be any overlap with skills and tools. The only one I can think of is Perform, in which no, it wouldn't stack, because you're just using one thing either the instrument or your singing/acting/etc. So no, there is no use to have multiple proficiencies because there are no overlapping ones. Remember, tools are things that you wouldn't normally be able to do without the tool.

But would it be a problem if they did overlap?

Edit I had to fix a slip of the tongue. It would be a problem if they stacked.