D&D 5E Tiamat?

[Lord Blackstone]

Takhisis was far more deadly than Tiamat was in the 1E days. With both of the deities being confirmed as the same being in 5E, I decided to post Takhisis' original 1E stats for comparison sake (Dragonlance Adventures, 1987).

Takhisis

Cleric/Black Robed Wizard (40th level each)
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Movement: 18" / 48"
Armor Class: -10
Hit Points: 999
Hit Dice: 40
# of Attacks: 4
Damage/Attack: 1-1000*/1-1000*/1-1000*/1-1000*
* The damage done by this attack is 1d10 times a number from 1-100, inclusive (Takhisis gets to pick the number!).

That is in addition to 40th level divine and arcane spellcasting abilities.... I have no idea how Raistlin ever managed to kill her given those stats. He is listed as a 20th level Black Robe wizard in a setting with a maximum level cap of 18, and has the following stats.

Raistlin Majere
(20th level human Black Robe Wizard)
STR 10, INT 17, Wis 14, DEX 16, CON 10, CHA 15
Thac0: 9
AL: Chaotic Evil
HP: 44
AC:​ -2

I agree. I have always wondered that. She would kick his ass all over the Abyss... Call it writers prerogative

 

[kalani]

Well, here's the thing..... Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weiss were the ones who wrote the DL Adventures book, and the novels both....Were I to hazard a guess, my money was on Tracy being the one who came up with Paladine's and Takhisis' stats (as he was fond of complex rules systems).

There was some obvious MacGuffin combat going on for him to have even lasted a single round against her, let alone fight her to a standstill (before bringing her through the portal to Krynn and offing her).

 

[ruleslawyer]

Takhisis was far more deadly than Tiamat was in the 1E days. With both of the deities being confirmed as the same being in 5E, I decided to //post Takhisis' original 1E stats for comparison sake (Dragonlance Adventures, 1987).

Amusingly, I was going to add something about this to my last post, and then dropped it. While I am no believer in the idea that there is a better/best way to stat gods, the DLA approach is an objectively WORST method.

I mean, the fiction here is clear, guys. You have a world (Krynn) that contains a theoretical maximum level of 18; you also have gods who physically interact with the setting. It's made EXTREMELY clear in the fiction that breaching the 18-level limit (in the case of Raistlin, being able to channel Fistandantilus/leverage Crysania's power) elevates you from mortal to god-threatening power. This mechanic set is easily dealt with by setting Takhisis at Tiamat (MM1) level power, or just generally maintaining striking distance between deities and capstone PCs... and they elect NOT to do that. Unacceptable by my lights. Again, Krynn should make this easy; the gods are going to be plenty godlike if they end up around L25 while the planet as a whole is stuck at L18 max. The larger point is where to set maximum power levels, at which point a DM needs to look at his/her specific cosmology.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Well, here's the thing..... Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weiss were the ones who wrote the DL Adventures book, and the novels both....Were I to hazard a guess, my money was on Tracy being the one who came up with Paladine's and Takhisis' stats (as he was fond of complex rules systems).

There was some obvious MacGuffin combat going on for him to have even lasted a single round against her, let alone fight her to a standstill (before bringing her through the portal to Krynn and offing her).

Jeff Grubb might have done the deity stats in DLA, actually.

In all seriousness: I really do believe that an author in his/her right mind would have framed the conflict in Legend of the Twins as between a Wiz25 (Raistlin) and a suitably powered cosmic entity (Tiamat using 1e stats). The fiction actually works out just fine if you roll it from there.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Anyway looking at Tiamat stats do you guys see anyway to beat her with a party of 4 level 20s.

 

[Mirtek]

Having now seen the adventure I am still disappointed. For all the "Tiamat is a god" talk, her statblock is not showing it. She's impressive allright, but still just in a big bad monster way. She has no [deity] tag or anything indicating she is anything other than a particular powerful monster.

I had hoped for a tage like with the kraken, empyrean and tarrasque all sharing the [titan] tag, so that later books could expand on that (like the 1e MotP did)

 

[Netherstorm]

The only thing I'd have liked to see added to her stat block is a combined breath weapon for Tiamat. Her stats look good.. hard to really judge until my group gets to fight her.

 

[Wolfskin]

Anyway looking at Tiamat stats do you guys see anyway to beat her with a party of 4 level 20s.

I can picture a well-rested 20th level party of six beating her, but not without heavy casualties- and even then it's not a sure thing. Now, I haven't read the last episode yet, but I expect the characters to face some degree of opposition without a chance to rest before getting to fight Tiamat.

 

[Morrus]

I have no idea how Raistlin ever managed to kill her given those stats. He is listed as a 20th level Black Robe wizard in a setting with a maximum level cap of 18, and has the following stats.

I agree. I have always wondered that. She would kick his ass all over the Abyss... Call it writers prerogative

My impression was that he was 20th level at the end of the Chronicles. By the end of the Legends he'd be much higher, presumably. I know they said they designed him specifically to break the rules.

I'm sure someone must have asked Tracy Hickman or Margaret Weis at some point in the last 20 years, especially with the internet and all. I wonder if it's discussed anywhere?

More curious to me was his 17 INT. In 1E, that means no 9th-level spells for him!

 

[Netherstorm]

I can picture a well-rested 20th level party of six beating her, but not without heavy casualties- and even then it's not a sure thing. Now, I haven't read the last episode yet, but I expect the characters to face some degree of opposition without a chance to rest before getting to fight Tiamat.

Spoilers...





The heroes go to the final area with an army of faction allies. There's a big battle and the heroes have to hack their way through a dungeon full of guards to get to Tiamat's hell-temple. I posted a detailed review of this in my blog.