D&D 5E Light release schedule: More harm than good?

Actually with DDI it was pretty cheap to get into 4e.

All of the material for a low monthly fee.

The problem, or part of it at least, was that prospective new players wouldn't know that. So they'd go into a game store, see the wall of books, and most likely decide they're just not interested in making that sort of investment, and being lost forever.

Some of them might ask the staff in store what was needed to get started, but by no means all. And it's very likely they'd get a bunch of competing answers - ranging from "Just the PHB" through "these six books", through "all this stuff", through even "don't play 4e, get 3e/PF/Savage Worlds/something else instead" (quite possibly leavened with a portion of Edition Wars-y contempt).

The phenomenon of the "wall of books" actively discouraging new players is actually reasonably well known. And, as with a certain other thread, it's largely the perception that matters here, and less the reality.
 

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The problem, or part of it at least, was that prospective new players wouldn't know that. So they'd go into a game store, see the wall of books, and most likely decide they're just not interested in making that sort of investment, and being lost forever.

Some of them might ask the staff in store what was needed to get started, but by no means all. And it's very likely they'd get a bunch of competing answers - ranging from "Just the PHB" through "these six books", through "all this stuff", through even "don't play 4e, get 3e/PF/Savage Worlds/something else instead" (quite possibly leavened with a portion of Edition Wars-y contempt).

The phenomenon of the "wall of books" actively discouraging new players is actually reasonably well known. And, as with a certain other thread, it's largely the perception that matters here, and less the reality.

Wall of books is a different problem to Cost of entry - and that is not even calculating the learning curve for a new player to get started without an established group.
 

Hugely successful how? Sure it obviously makes enough money to keep the lights on but you know nothing beyond that. WoW is a game that is hugely successful. There are tons of MMO's out there who are still going but wouldn't be considered successful. Not to mention the fact that it's free to play.

I said that Neverwinter Nights was hugely successful not DDO. But if your bar for success is WoW and nothing less, then by that standard there has never been a successful MMO. Nothing comes close to WoW.

You do not need to be that successful to be a success.

But I have a feeling that this is far more about perception than reality so I think I'll go back to lurking.
 

Wall of books is a different problem to Cost of entry

It's different but related. A potential player walking into a game store and seeing a Wall of Books is going to perceive a high Cost of Entry, even if that isn't the reality.

and that is not even calculating the learning curve for a new player to get started without an established group.

Indeed. Though I'm somewhat sceptical about how many people start playing with new groups that have no connection to the existing player base.

Still, it is indeed a possible issue, and one that WotC have done well to combat, IMO - a Starter Set that gets people playing quickly and guides a new DM through an excellent (IMO) adventure, that then leads onto a free-to-download Basic version of the game, and that then in turn leads on to the 'full' Core Rulebooks.

I'm critical of WotC on a number of fronts, but on that one I applaud what they've done wholeheartedly.
 

Indeed. Though I'm somewhat sceptical about how many people start playing with new groups that have no connection to the existing player base.

Still, it is indeed a possible issue, and one that WotC have done well to combat, IMO - a Starter Set that gets people playing quickly and guides a new DM through an excellent (IMO) adventure, that then leads onto a free-to-download Basic version of the game, and that then in turn leads on to the 'full' Core Rulebooks.

I'm critical of WotC on a number of fronts, but on that one I applaud what they've done wholeheartedly.

I remember the angry dm had a post re: ease of starting DnD where he spoke about the challenges of needing an experienced DM to get players started.
 



The problem, or part of it at least, was that prospective new players wouldn't know that. So they'd go into a game store, see the wall of books, and most likely decide they're just not interested in making that sort of investment, and being lost forever.

Some of them might ask the staff in store what was needed to get started, but by no means all. And it's very likely they'd get a bunch of competing answers - ranging from "Just the PHB" through "these six books", through "all this stuff", through even "don't play 4e, get 3e/PF/Savage Worlds/something else instead" (quite possibly leavened with a portion of Edition Wars-y contempt).

The phenomenon of the "wall of books" actively discouraging new players is actually reasonably well known. And, as with a certain other thread, it's largely the perception that matters here, and less the reality.
If that were the case then no one would ever get anything from a library or a bookstore. I don't buy that argument as I've only ever heard it used on an internet forum.
 

It's different but related. A potential player walking into a game store and seeing a Wall of Books is going to perceive a high Cost of Entry, even if that isn't the reality.



Indeed. Though I'm somewhat sceptical about how many people start playing with new groups that have no connection to the existing player base.

Still, it is indeed a possible issue, and one that WotC have done well to combat, IMO - a Starter Set that gets people playing quickly and guides a new DM through an excellent (IMO) adventure, that then leads onto a free-to-download Basic version of the game, and that then in turn leads on to the 'full' Core Rulebooks.

I'm critical of WotC on a number of fronts, but on that one I applaud what they've done wholeheartedly.

Heh, I'm the DM of one such group, and we started with Pathfinder - not the Beginner Box, straight up "hey guys time to select your Feats, why don't you browse the 1,000,000+ on the PFSRD for a little while?" Pathfinder.

To say I wish we'd started with 5E and the Starter Set is something of an understatement. I still have Vietnam flashbacks to character creation. Much happier with 5E's number of moving parts.
 

The problem, or part of it at least, was that prospective new players wouldn't know that. So they'd go into a game store, see the wall of books, and most likely decide they're just not interested in making that sort of investment, and being lost forever.

The phenomenon of the "wall of books" actively discouraging new players is actually reasonably well known. And, as with a certain other thread, it's largely the perception that matters here, and less the reality.
+1
There is so much truth in here. I relate to it myself.

Wall of books is a different problem to Cost of entry - and that is not even calculating the learning curve for a new player to get started without an established group.

Agreed. It is different, to be sure, but new players don't know the difference. That is where the problem lies.

Believe it or not, the very first time I ever played D&D (any version) was as a DM running LMoP for a group of players who had not played D&D either.

If you take a look at my early threads on here, it was a barrage of questions. I had to learn a lot, and do it within a short time span. My players were wanting to get started, and I needed to be on top of things.

Truth be told though, that if it wasn't for this forum, and the free basic PDF, we might not be playing at all. The reason we wouldn't be, is a misunderstanding of what is really needed to play the game.

I had been considering D&D for years (since the early days of 3.0, when I was into M:tG) but I didn't know anybody who played, the wall of books looked intimidating, and I had NO idea of where to start.

I didn't know what books I needed to get started, as an outsider I thought it would be far too complicated to learn, and so I just continued to play Magic.

For many years I didn't pay attention to D&D, heck, it wasn't until joining this forum that I learned there are several editions of the game. I thought ALL of the books on the shelves were for "The game of D&D". I have a feeling that most non-gamers, casual gamers, and those who only have a passing interest but no group to introduce them are probably thinking the same thing.

Even with me being into the game and my enthusiasm of trying to get friends and family into playing, there is still a lot of "I don't know if I can learn all that" or "You have a bunch of books, that's too much to read" or "I'm afraid I will do something stupid/mess up the game" etc, etc.

When I explain that all they REALLY need to have is the free PDF, and then go on to explain why, I see attitudes change. I see the looks on their faces when I explain that they can literally play D&D for the rest of their lives using only the free materials available legally on their official website. Once they come to that understanding, it's like an AH-HA! moment. They then realize that all of the physical books are simply more options, not the bare minimum to play the game.

Still though, if I hadn't explained that, they would have never known.

All of that is why I am a supporter of the light release schedule. Keep the wall of books to a minimum. Make it less intimidating for new players when walking by the D&D books at the store. I would love to see the player base for D&D grow, and am actively trying to encourage new people to play. I am also enjoying my two groups, and am happy to see my players wanting to invest in the game via buying their own dice and books. :)
 

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