D&D 5E What are the Roles now?

[GMforPowergamers]

Yet somehow, it is so. MechaPilot may be right it was deliberate. I don't know what to say, because I have spent most of my time defending Wizards of the Coast and promoting the new edition.

as I look at the spell's in 5e, I see are spells...

Cure wound 1st-level evocation
Casting Time: one action
Range: Touch
Components: V&S
Duration: Instant
A creature you touch regains a number of hit points equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. This spell has no effect on undead or constructs.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the healing increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.

nothing calling it divine...

 

[Ashrym]

The intent is not that all healing spells are divine. Spells are defined by the class casting them.

The weave of magic sidebar under casting a spell (PHB) lists bard, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard spells as arcane spells. Arcane tricksters and eldritch knights also use arcane spells. The same side bar goes on to state clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers use divine spells. Because cure wounds is a bard spell and bards cast arcane spells then cure wounds cast by a bard is arcane.

The "healing spells are divine spells" was an older philosophy in the that changed and is no longer true but even the older systems had some spells for magic users that healed, with more added later in splat materials. It hasn't been true for a very long time because bards cast arcane cure x spells in 3.x too.

 

[SirAntoine]

The intent is not that all healing spells are divine. Spells are defined by the class casting them.

The weave of magic sidebar under casting a spell (PHB) lists bard, sorcerer, warlock, and wizard spells as arcane spells. Arcane tricksters and eldritch knights also use arcane spells. The same side bar goes on to state clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers use divine spells. Because cure wounds is a bard spell and bards cast arcane spells then cure wounds cast by a bard is arcane.

The "healing spells are divine spells" was an older philosophy in the that changed and is no longer true but even the older systems had some spells for magic users that healed, with more added later in splat materials. It hasn't been true for a very long time because bards cast arcane cure x spells in 3.x too.

No. The text fails to make a distinction. The text is understandably incorrect. After all, who would guess anyone would doubt healing spells are divine magic?

 

[SirAntoine]

To be 100% clear, I do not believe that it was deliberate. I do not believe that it was the intent of the devs that all healing magic is divine. I believe that the notion that all healing magic is divine is a misinterpretation (or an individually elected flavor choice), and it's a belief that I have literally never come across until I read where you posted it.

That said, if the intention of the devs was that all healing magic is divine, it is incredibly poorly executed to the point where I could see an argument for deliberate obfuscation. However, that relies on the intent of the devs being that all healing magic is divine magic, and I just do not believe that was their intent.

Understood. It's much more likely they just didn't think it was important to make a distinction. The confusion stems from the bard getting healing spells, and to a significant but lesser extent the legacy of 4th Edition's martial healing.

 

[Ashrym]

No. The text fails to make a distinction. The text is understandably incorrect. After all, who would guess anyone would doubt healing spells are divine magic?

No, the text clearly states bards cast arcane spells. 4e used the arcane power source and 3e stated the exact same thing where bard spells were arcane spells. When it was questioned the response was bards cast an arcane version of cure x wounds.

Here is the quote from the PHB:

"All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding—learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power—gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath."

 

[SirAntoine]

No, the text clearly states bards cast arcane spells. 4e used the arcane power source and 3e stated the exact same thing where bard spells were arcane spells. When it was questioned the response was bards cast an arcane version of cure x wounds.

Here is the quote from the PHB:

"All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding—learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power—gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath."

Even this is not convincing, but I can see why you believe it. I would say you are encouraged by the new edition to adopt this alternate view of magic. To the extent this is harmful, I shall fight it.

 

[pemerton]

who would guess anyone would doubt healing spells are divine magic?

Given that it's been a part of the game since the psionic healing of Eldritch Wizardry, or the non-divine self-healing of the monk, and has since been extended to the arcane healing of the bard in 3E, 4e and now 5e, I think that anyone who's paying attention would make such a guess!

To the extent this is harmful, I shall fight it.

What is the harm that you envisage?

 

[SirAntoine]

The easiest fix is to disallow bards. They were an optional class, and it's clear they're over-powered in 5th Edition as well.

Healing magic should be at least 95% from clerics and other priest classes. It's a big part of how they keep characters with the faith.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't think you understand what I am saying at all. I am saying a healing spell is always divine magic.

This is just patently false as has been illustrated by many posters here. Every edition of the game except maybe 1E has had arcane sources of healing magic. Not a lot, but some.

And not just hit point restorative magic like Cure Light Wounds, but any restoration type magic (Raise Dead, Restoration), via spells like Wish (and Limited Wish in earlier editions). 5E is still limited to the core PHB for spells, but like every other edition since 2E, eventually even Wizards will get healing magic (e.g. Simbul's Synostodweomer, etc.) via splatbooks.

Even 5E has Vampiric Touch, a third level wizard spell. And a wizard can even use his Familiar to touch with it so that he does not put himself into harms way.

 

[SirAntoine]

This is just patently false as has been illustrated by many posters here. Every edition of the game except maybe 1E has had arcane sources of healing magic. Not a lot, but some.

And not just hit point restorative magic like Cure Light Wounds, but any restoration type magic (Raise Dead, Restoration), via spells like Wish (and Limited Wish in earlier editions). 5E is still limited to the core PHB for spells, but like every other edition since 2E, eventually even Wizards will get healing magic (e.g. Simbul's Synostodweomer, etc.) via splatbooks.

Even 5E has Vampiric Touch, a third level wizard spell. And a wizard can even use his Familiar to touch with it so that he does not put himself into harms way.

You mention exceptions. Since when did the exception take the place of the rule?