D&D 5E So what exactly is Wizards working on?

[Sailor Moon]

I'm going against my better judgment to add my two cents. I just got back into the game (completely missed 4E and a variety of things surrounding 5E's launch got me interested enough to recruit a group of folks who have never played before). I've just purchased the core books and I'm still working my through them. I'm not up to speed on the last eight or ten years of RPG developments (I vaguely remember Pathfinder and 4E being developed as I started checking out). All that is to say that I am not speaking from a position of authority. I'm just making an observation that has probably already been made before.

The release schedule so far has been tied to themes with that theme being emphasized with various ancillary partners. I wasn't around for the dragon emphasis so I can't speak with authority there, but elemental evil has been announced with minis and video game support. Both of those take time to develop and coordinate with other elements (especially any video game synergy). Both of those may have a different season of sales strength before needing the next thing (or to put another way, ancillary products may have a different sales cycle than the RPG books and Wizards may be trying to balancing its various income streams to maximize each stream's profit potential before introducing the next cycle) To me, it looks like Wizards is trying to coordinate the brand to launch products on theme to maximize the impact of advertising/mind share. That may be lurking behind a slower schedule. They aren't interested in launching generic support products at the moment (a spell compendium or such). They want to launch themed products that synergize across the entire brand.

So what are they working on? They're working on developing the next several themes and plotting out support for those themes. I don't know if this happened in 4E, but I know it wasn't like this in 3.X.

As an anecdote, I will add that this worked to get me back in. 5E came out to enough positive reviews from different outlets that it made me think about playing again. Now, that I'm back in, I am sorely tempted to take part in the theme just to be able to have that shared experience. I'm not sure it'll impact the home game that I've started, but I've spent the last few days looking at AL and figuring out if I can fit that into my life. It's also made me want to buy the adventures just so that I can read about the experience. It's also made me remember that I wanted to check out that Neverwinter MMO, but my internet isn't up to snuff for that.

In my opinion, I wouldn't waste my time with the MMO. It's not good to be honest. It is extremely "grindy" and becomes boring really quick.

You are right about the theme, but the problem I see is they are really trying to shove the theme down our thoughts buy almost making you buy their AP's because of the information inside. There is nothing wrong with having a theme, but it shouldn't be getting most of the attention, it should be running along the side with other non themed products because there are lots of people who are either not interested in AL or don't live close enough to a shop that does it.

 

[Manchu]

@Sacrosanct

Can you please skip the rhetorical attacks and get to the substance?

How does choosing between brands of jam or any other example in the article you linked relate to WotC publishing additional material for 5E?

Let me give an example where your article is relevant: In miniatures wargaming, a huge amount of WW2-era kits are available in 20mm -- arguably more than any other scale. In the past few years, however, 28mm WW2-era miniatures have been selling very well despite there being a far more limited range of kits available. I believe the key factor is that all those 20mm kits are available from tons of different companies and none of them do a great job of making their product lines easy for potential customers to understand. Meanwhile, the 28mm market for WW2 miniatures has been centralized under one company (Warlord Games, if you are curious) who invested in a graphics-intensive website that is easy for customers to navigate.

Now -- using the same example -- here's how your article is not relevant. Over time, Warlord Games has expanded their range of 28mm WW2 miniatures. They began with the Big Four powers (US, UK, Russian, Germany) and made the most common miniatures for those powers: regular infantry, the tanks that saw the greatest production in history, etc. But over time they have added more options to those lines: variants of certain tanks, special forces, etc. They have also added miniatures for other powers, like France and Italy.

Expanding their line does give the customer more choices -- but it is not driving down their sales. Quite the opposite. Because this is not the type of choice that fosters choosing not to choose, like the confusing state of the 20mm miniatrues market, where customers don't know who makes what even if almost everything is already available.

D&D 5E is much closer to my second example than my first. We are talking about products that expand a single, current product line managed by a single company.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

So many people have come to the Realms through old school computer games like Baldur's Gate. I am happy WotC is continuing to release the Realms through MMOs.

I have a hunch that all the background writing for the Realms is complete. Between now and Gen Con I hope WotC complete work on the first of several Realms campaign guides.

 

[Sacrosanct]

@Sacrosanct

Can you please skip the rhetorical attacks and get to the substance?
.

I'm sorry, I couldn't make it past this part due to irony overload. You are the person who just got done saying this:

LOL so it's either I agree with you or I didn't read it?

So forgive me if I don't put a whole lot of faith in someone who literally just resorted to a pretty bad strawman asking to cut the rhetoric. I've presented information from industry professionals, and sourced data to back it up. Clearly you don't agree with it. Clearly you had to resort to making up an argument I never made in order to try to get your point across. At this point, there's really no point in continuing is there, if you're going to do those things.

So I'll spare everyone more drama about this tangent, and I'll stick with believing people who do this for a living, and believing the actual data we have. Feel free to get the last word in.

 

[Manchu]

Ok thanks in advance for giving me the last word, I guess, although it would be nicer to have a discussion about the topic. But if you are just going to post another personal attack, it is probably best that you give up.

I agree with the point made in the article you linked. I don't agree that that point has anything to do with the subject of this thread. I took the trouble to give you examples of both, which you have disregarded in favor of making more personal attacks.

 

[Matthan]

You are right about the theme, but the problem I see is they are really trying to shove the theme down our thoughts buy almost making you buy their AP's because of the information inside. There is nothing wrong with having a theme, but it shouldn't be getting most of the attention, it should be running along the side with other non themed products because there are lots of people who are either not interested in AL or don't live close enough to a shop that does it.

Well, I'm speaking from ignorance (I have no experience in publishing), but, to me, it looks like they're viewing the core books as evergreen and using the themes to introduce product for a time and I'm guessing will allow them to go out of print (or shift them to digital offerings). The bloat of product that others have mentioned as being a turn off to prospective players would be alleviated. Instead of seeing the core books and a handful (or more) of others, my guess is that they want one or two more products available at a time sitting beside the core. Then, directly beside that you would see ancillary products that directly support the additional products (minis that fit the adventure you can buy for example).

My guess is that they're looking at their numbers and seeing that they only have three true evergreen SKUs, the core books. Everything past that is some level of diminishing returns (just an assumption, but I think Ryan Dancey mentioned back in the 3.0 days that the PHB was by far the bestseller of the line). It's possible that their strategy is to support the game through timed releases that come and go without distracting from the Core. That certainly fits with releasing free player content to go along with the next theme instead of a full rule book.

Now, I believe that your argument is that Pathfinder is successful following the former model of having a steady release of content and D&D should continue with a model that is apparently successful. Your argument isn't wrong. I think the issue is that Wizards are testing to see if another model might be more successful. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that in publishing, it's the second printings and beyond where you find real profit. I don't know that to be true, but if we assume it, we can guess that Wizards is trying to maximize the return from their historically most profitable SKUs.

Or to put it another way, Wizards is trying to focus on growing the game (through brand synergy and outreach programs) and selling more core books instead of short term profits that come from selling new content to the existing audience that may discourage new players. The strategy may be flawed. I don't think we have enough distance from its start to really evaluate yet.

The test will be to watch their product schedule over the next year or two. If they shift gears towards a more traditional model (like Pathfinder holds), you'll be proven correct. If they stay the course, I will take that as evidence that their brand awareness pushing back to core has proven to be a solid model as well.

 

[Manchu]

My bet is, the real purpose of releasing APs at all is to get even more people to buy the core books.

 

[Matthan]

My bet is, the real purpose of releasing APs at all is to get even more people to buy the core books.

Man, I take like six paragraphs and you say the same thing in one sentence. I think I may be over explaining things.

 

[Manchu]

Not at all, Matthan. One of the points of discussion fora is to "think aloud" as it were while you post.

 

[Reynard]

My bet is, the real purpose of releasing APs at all is to get even more people to buy the core books.

That squares pretty well with the C&Ds on character generators, actually.