D&D 5E Second Wind Regeneration

[Tormyr]

The other thing to look at is that a short rest is a period of time of at least 1 hour spent resting, bandaging wounds, etc. If the player thinks they have spent 4 short rests, inform them that they have only taken 1 short rest 4 hours long. The party will need to actually go do something before thinking about another short rest.

Apologies if that had been pointed out on a previous page.

 

[Ahrimon]

In summation the options are:

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1) Change the rules to avoid dickish behaviour (for this set of rules); or

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2) Remove the troublesome player to avoid dickish behaviour permanently.

I'd say the options are:
1) Scratch your head since your DM (or you as the DM) has common sense enough for this not to be a problem.
2) Don't play with rules mongering twits who believe the rules are sacrosanct and have to followed like the a religion.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It is mechanics like second wind where I wish 5E did introduce modules for rules, especially healing, versus making the fighter the center of a hit dice/short rest debate or an unfinished mechanic. I am not sure why they did not tie the ability to hit dice recovery or even make it scale better.

HD, IIRC, can be eliminated depending on the DMG healing option you choose, so not linking anything to HD was one way of keeping it modular (the other would have been to use something more adaptable than HD as a basis for all healing, with HD being one module).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

This all comes down to one thing: DM fiat. It's silly to think that a DM trying to change the ability would allow this sort of thing. Its absurd to me that any players would think that this is ok. If I changed this ability in such a way and the players attempted this, I would expect them to actually attack each other, institute alignment changes, and likely have some sort of other punishment. I cannot abide such petty play from my players.

Fine, then that actually happens. Their alignments shift, and legitimate attacks are made before the paladin breaks up the fight and everyone agrees to set aside their differences only until they kill the Big Bad.

Whatever I describe in an obviously ridiculous way could also be undertaken seriously. There's no right or wrong way to role-play your character. The difference here is that the party which role-plays their alignment conflicts - to the point where it actually comes to blows - has a better chance of beating the Big Bad and saving the world than a party which works together in all things.

Which is, itself, ridiculous. Why would a DM want to incentivize that sort of thing?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The other thing to look at is that a short rest is a period of time of at least 1 hour spent resting, bandaging wounds, etc. If the player thinks they have spent 4 short rests, inform them that they have only taken 1 short rest 4 hours long. The party will need to actually go do something before thinking about another short rest.

What do they need to do, then? What action will constitute justification for taking another short rest? Is it based on the passage of time - you must spend two hours active before you can take another short rest? Or is it based on encounters - like 4E has mile-stones?

 

[brehobit]

Eh? I don't really see the problem here. I'm fine with limiting a party to 2 or 3 short rests per long rest and no more than 1 long rest per 24 hours.

But I'm also fine with letting a fighter heal twice in a 2 hour rest. Just don't see the issue as being too problematic.

That said, if we _really_ need a rule here, I'd go with changing it to second wind can only heal you up to 1/2 your hit points (which is a pretty big hit at lower levels) and you get a +2 bonus on AC and saves until the start of your next turn (to make up for the loss, to make it so it's more likely to see use in combat, and to mirror 4e).

Honestly, would people object if this was a feature of a life cleric? Is it just the non-magical nature of the healing that bothers people?

 

[Tormyr]

What do they need to do, then? What action will constitute justification for taking another short rest? Is it based on the passage of time - you must spend two hours active before you can take another short rest? Or is it based on encounters - like 4E has mile-stones?

Whatever the DM feels like. Probably something that progresses the story somehow in a meaningful way. Rather than:

Party: okay we are ready to go.
Fighter: I still have ouchies beccause I have not used hit dice, curative magic, potions or whatever passes for healing in our world. I am going to spend 4 hours slowly using my extra fighter ability.
Party:

or

Party: let's head out
(Walks half a mile at a moderate pace)
Fighter: You know, I still have that crick in my neck. Let's take another short rest.
Party:

or

Party: Let's head out.
(Eventually finds and fights some goblins)
Fighter: Okay, I'm beat. Let's take another short rest.
Party: But we just took one before the goblins, and you did not take any damage!
Fighter: Yeah, well I'm still pretty beat from earlier. I just need a little nap.
Party:

The fighter in our party uses Second Wind once in a while when taking massive damage in combat. The rest of the time it does not really get used.

Really, it just comes down to a DM needing to intervene if having to deal with this being abused.

DM: You start to take a short rest only to discover there are signs of orcs in the area. Better press on.
Wizard: I cast leomund's tiny hut.
DM: Everyone smells terrible in the cramped space. After a couple of minutes, you notice orcs gathering around the hut. The hut disappears as a shaman casts dispel magic, and the orcs are upon you!

Second Wind does what its name says on the tin, provide a second wind. Not a third, fourth, and fifth wind.

Another option if it proves too problematic would be for the DM to eliminate Second Wind and give the fighter 1 more HP per level. The end result is about the same. There are a few HP less, but the HP is already there and does not require an action to activate.

 

[Tony Vargas]

We're going to have to come up with something pithy for multiple short rests, like the 15 min Workday was for frequent long rests. Adventurers' Union-Mandated Breaks? 3-martini lunch? 1-hr coffee break? Hobbit Pacing...


Party composition is going to make a difference, too, the more characters you have with something useful out of combat that recharges with a short rest, the greater the reason to get in as many as possible.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Second Wind does what its name says on the tin, provide a second wind. Not a third, fourth, and fifth wind.

Why would it do what the name says, rather than what the description or mechanics say? Here's what happens when you leave it undefined -

Party: Wow, this fight is really tough. Everyone is injured.
DM: The dragon breathes fire on everyone. Who is still alive after taking 42 damage?
Fighter: I still have 10 HP, thanks to that second short rest we took. My turn, I hit the dragon for 17 damage.
DM: The dragon dies, and you have plenty of time to stabilize the rest of the party before they bleed out.

or

DM: You can't take another short rest, and there's nothing you can do about it, because I say that would make a boring story.
Fighter: Okay, I guess I'm still pretty far down as we enter the cave.
DM: A dragon breathes fire on the party. Everyone dies.

 

[redrick]

We're going to have to come up with something pithy for multiple short rests, like the 15 min Workday was for frequent long rests. Adventurers' Union-Mandated Breaks? 3-martini lunch? 1-hr coffee break? Hobbit Pacing...


Party composition is going to make a difference, too, the more characters you have with something useful out of combat that recharges with a short rest, the greater the reason to get in as many as possible.

I'm accusing my players of hobbit pacing if this ever comes up in our game. (Which it hasn't. But still.)

How many people have actually experienced consecutive short-rest/second wind cheese in their games? I've seen a lot of theoretical concern, but does anybody ever actually have problems with it?

I still run into problems with the short work-day in 5e, but I work in New York and have a hard time feeling sympathy for any adventurer who isn't cooped up in his dungeon for 55 hours a week. (Don't these monsters have families!?)