Saeviomagy
Adventurer
The other possibility is to give him a certain number of second winds per long rest, bringing him in to line with most other healing mechanics.
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D&D 5E Second Wind Regeneration
- Thread starter S'mon
- Start date
aramis erak
Legend
I've limited it to "cannot be used again until after a short rest and taking damage costing at least one non-temporary hit point."
The Crimson Binome
Hero
It's not a meaningful limitation in any way, because the players can enter combat whenever they feel like it. The fighter insults the wizard's mom, the wizard punches the fighter for 1 damage, and the fighter uses Second Wind as a minor action before apologizing to the wizard.
Yes, it's dumb, but the party that engages in these sorts of shenanigans is more likely to survive and defeat the Big Bad than a party that just shrugs and pretends that it's not an option.
A better limitation would involve converting Second Wind to temporary HP, or letting it only work twice per day, or something along those lines. Those would be real limitations, and not just mechanical enforcement contributing to awkward role-playing.
the Jester
Legend
I'll say that this is probably a fine solution for tables that find Second Wind problematic and abusable. For myself, I have found in my games that the cost involved in spending an hour sitting around not making real progress toward... anything... is enough to discourage SW abuse. That, and actually using wandering monster checks (so that a short rest is not assured in dangerous areas).
Tony Vargas
Legend
Or the shenanigan could simply not work according to the rules, or the DM could rule against it. It's 'rulings not rules' so silliness like that only works if the DM rules it works. If the DM is already tweaking the rules on second wind to work the way he wants, he wouldn't rule them to work the way he doesn't want. Potential loopholes in wording might matter for a rule that's going to be published somewhere, but for a house rule it's a non-issue, the DM knows exactly how he intends for it to work.
redrick
First Post
Yeah, I think the easiest way to control short rest shenanigans is just to call in the wandering monsters whenever PCs are taking short rests in places they shouldn't. If you curl up in a corner of the dungeon and take a short rest for an hour, great. But then you want to curl up in the exact same corner of the dungeon and take another short rest? By now, somebody's found you. One hit from a CR2 monster will blow out any gains your fighter got from that second wind.
If PCs are working hard enough to earn a place they can take a defensible short rest, they can have it. Even if they end up taking 3 or 4 over the course of the day. There's no need to limit the number of short rests so long as you keep the proper cost associated with them — resting for an hour in a dangerous place is dangerous. If it's not dangerous, then why don't they just take a long rest, get some HD back (assuming you're on the slowing healing model as the OP is) and get all their spells back?
That's the problem we have in my game. The characters are so good at clearing and securing areas to take their short rests, that they frequently just hunker down for the night. I've teleported monsters in before, and need to start stacking my wandering monster tables with more oozes and incorporeals.
But, it's all good. The loophole isn't there to be closed in the game as we play it, but if I were having problems with it in a slow healing module, I'd probably just tie second wind to HD and give fighters 2 extra HD to make up for it. That would give the most flexibility to the players to make choices with their resources.
(For instance, here's a scenario where I think it makes sense to use second wind multiple times without taking additional damage: at the beginning of the day, the fighter takes near-fatal damage and uses his second wind to recover a little. The party takes a short rest, where the fighter is able to bandage his wounds and (with the second wind feature) gain another 11 hp or so. (Let's assume level 5 fighter.) After the rest, the party presses on and travels deeper into the dungeon. They manage to avoid combat with a band of sentries and slip through a monster-infested area undetected. Eventually, they find another defensible position and decide to take another short rest. At this point, the fighter takes the time to really see to his wounds, drink some water and further regain his stamina. He gains another 11 hp. Because he's a bad-ass fighter and he can just go to that 11 hp well of his endurance. Why should taking damage make it easier for him to regain stamina and shrug off the pain?)
If PCs are working hard enough to earn a place they can take a defensible short rest, they can have it. Even if they end up taking 3 or 4 over the course of the day. There's no need to limit the number of short rests so long as you keep the proper cost associated with them — resting for an hour in a dangerous place is dangerous. If it's not dangerous, then why don't they just take a long rest, get some HD back (assuming you're on the slowing healing model as the OP is) and get all their spells back?
That's the problem we have in my game. The characters are so good at clearing and securing areas to take their short rests, that they frequently just hunker down for the night. I've teleported monsters in before, and need to start stacking my wandering monster tables with more oozes and incorporeals.
But, it's all good. The loophole isn't there to be closed in the game as we play it, but if I were having problems with it in a slow healing module, I'd probably just tie second wind to HD and give fighters 2 extra HD to make up for it. That would give the most flexibility to the players to make choices with their resources.
(For instance, here's a scenario where I think it makes sense to use second wind multiple times without taking additional damage: at the beginning of the day, the fighter takes near-fatal damage and uses his second wind to recover a little. The party takes a short rest, where the fighter is able to bandage his wounds and (with the second wind feature) gain another 11 hp or so. (Let's assume level 5 fighter.) After the rest, the party presses on and travels deeper into the dungeon. They manage to avoid combat with a band of sentries and slip through a monster-infested area undetected. Eventually, they find another defensible position and decide to take another short rest. At this point, the fighter takes the time to really see to his wounds, drink some water and further regain his stamina. He gains another 11 hp. Because he's a bad-ass fighter and he can just go to that 11 hp well of his endurance. Why should taking damage make it easier for him to regain stamina and shrug off the pain?)
Does that even limit it any more than raw?
It is mechanics like second wind where I wish 5E did introduce modules for rules, especially healing, versus making the fighter the center of a hit dice/short rest debate or an unfinished mechanic. I am not sure why they did not tie the ability to hit dice recovery or even make it scale better.
SilverfireSage
Explorer
This all comes down to one thing: DM fiat. It's silly to think that a DM trying to change the ability would allow this sort of thing. Its absurd to me that any players would think that this is ok. If I changed this ability in such a way and the players attempted this, I would expect them to actually attack each other, institute alignment changes, and likely have some sort of other punishment. I cannot abide such petty play from my players.
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