D&D 5E Wizards not taking Gencon seriously?

[SteveC]

As someone who's been going to Gen Con for years (my first was at UW Parkside) I found WotC's presence at the con to be rather sad. Alas for the days of the castle!

Let's be honest: there was no practical reason for TSR/WotC to have that castle other than showing that they were the big dog in the industry. Those banners in the halls where they would run Living Forgotten Realms clearly showed this was a big company with tons of people playing.

Morrus' picture of the game hall this year had nothing advertising who was there, so you'd have no idea that people in that hall were playing D&D as opposed to Pathfinder or ... any other game. That doesn't manage perception very well.

With the launch of 5E, you would think that managing perceptions in the marketplace would be important for them again. They submitted entries to the ENnies, for instance, which they haven't always done. That's totally about perception in the marketplace.

I don't work in marketing, but I've been part of enough teams that do (as support) to know that perception of who you are in the market is seen as the key.

If you came to Gen Con and didn't already know about who the big players were, you wouldn't even think about WotC and D&D, since they didn't have anything on display, which is kind of sad because they have the promotional materials, they just didn't send them and get it set up. Where was the giant Drizzt?

If WotC has ceded control of Gen Con to other games, that's (obviously) their choice but I would call it a questionable one. 62000 plus people at the con, wow that's a lot, and this used to be their convention.

It's just a sad day when we can't talk about the attack on the castle in a Gen Con wrap up.

 

[billd91]

The way to get a potential player is not by having a seminar, or a booth, both because those are just poor tools for the purpose, and because the target is unlikely to bother attending. The way to hook someone is by having them *play*. But, as I understand it, the game seats at GenCon are largely booked up well before the con begins. So, your potential players have little opportunity to pick it up spur of the moment.

Thus, the Con doesn't seem a god place to recruit anyone who wasn't already trying to get into the game.

Yes, some games are booked up well in advance, but no-show players are also common. Getting a set of generic tickets can be a real enabler. Plus there are quite a few pick-up games scattered about and demos. So it's not as hard as you think to hook up for a game or at least learn more about it, as a spectator if not as a participant.

 

[SteveC]

Yes, some games are booked up well in advance, but no-show players are also common. Getting a set of generic tickets can be a real enabler. Plus there are quite a few pick-up games scattered about and demos. So it's not as hard as you think to hook up for a game or at least learn more about it, as a spectator if not as a participant.

This is a huge deal. I played a lot of Living Forgotten Realms at Gen Con over the years, and I almost never had an actual ticket. Show up with a generic and you're likely to be able to play in something. They had a pool of GMs and usually had a couple of extra "floaters" who'd run for people who'd just show up. This was a big deal and it showed their commitment to getting people into games to play.

Additionally, timing is everything at Gen Con. Call of Cthuhlu games are almost impossible to get into (they sell out in less than 5 minutes) but if there's on on Saturday at 8 AM, yeah, stop by with a generic and you're usually in.

 

[Neptune]

The way to get a potential player is not by having a seminar, or a booth, both because those are just poor tools for the purpose, and because the target is unlikely to bother attending. The way to hook someone is by having them *play*. But, as I understand it, the game seats at GenCon are largely booked up well before the con begins. So, your potential players have little opportunity to pick it up spur of the moment.

Thus, the Con doesn't seem a god place to recruit anyone who wasn't already trying to get into the game.

It can and should be a good place to recruit players. If there's a will, there's a way. Like reserving specific intro games for generic tix and using them for that. BMG kinda does this with the 2-hour slots. Last year it was "Defiance in Phlan" and this year it was "Harried in Hillsfar". But execution is critical. 1) They need to let people know 2) They need to have good, patient DMs who can teach the new players.

I sat down at a Harried in Hillsfar game. The DM, a 15-year old kid that may have played several sessions of D&D in his lifetime, didn't know the rules and didn't know the story background. He should not have been running a session for people who were potential players at a premier event like Gencon. I've never DMed at a convention before but seeing that, I just might do it to do good for the game.

 

[default_entry]

The way to get a potential player is not by having a seminar, or a booth, both because those are just poor tools for the purpose, and because the target is unlikely to bother attending. The way to hook someone is by having them *play*. But, as I understand it, the game seats at GenCon are largely booked up well before the con begins. So, your potential players have little opportunity to pick it up spur of the moment.

Thus, the Con doesn't seem a god place to recruit anyone who wasn't already trying to get into the game.

I will second this big time. Games at a con are where people are more willing to try new things-its time they have set aside specifically for gaming, rather than their one or two nights a week with friends. The ability to handle walk ins is integral to growing the brand, and by extension the hobby, even if its little two-hour adventure stints.
As far as booths and seminars? I don't think booths aren really that big a deal any more-the vendor hall is just a nerd mall, with existing shops trying to sell you things with their own salesmen, rather than a big-box display, or your local gamestore's staff/player base. The real demos and catchy displays come from the individual game rooms - the Battle of Hoth with Star Wars Minis; Maps of Middle-earth with armies of figs; Table after table of DND adventures-these are the things that catch new players imaginations, and stoke curiosity into full-blown interest.
Things like panels and seminars are where existing players will want to meet to show up and swap experience, and (hopefully!) refine their techniques to bring home for their local groups. Mindless, number-crunching threads are fine for mechanical optimization, but to improve presentation requires real discussion, more than playing forum tag really allows.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The way to get a potential player is not by having a seminar, or a booth, both because those are just poor tools for the purpose, and because the target is unlikely to bother attending. The way to hook someone is by having them *play*. But, as I understand it, the game seats at GenCon are largely booked up well before the con begins. So, your potential players have little opportunity to pick it up spur of the moment.

Thus, the Con doesn't seem a god place to recruit anyone who wasn't already trying to get into the game.

Most of the tables ARE booked before the con begins, but there are DMs set aside to be sure they can handle a couple of tables worth of Generics and very few people get turned away.

From what I understand, however, that there simply isn't enough people who show up with Generics on the fly to warrant a huge number of tables. Most people who come to GenCon book a decent amount of their time in advance. This is because the popular events all sell out quickly so you NEED to book your time in advance if you want to attend anything really popular.

The solution to this has been the Delves in the past. Where you just got in line and waited for the next table to be available and played. On the GenCon forums when someone asked why the Delves went away, Dave said this:

" and we did not replace it. We expanded it.

We still have our 90-minute have fun adventures that start every single hour from 8am to 11PM each day (Look for DDEX2-1 and DDEX3-1 in the system). We just got the word "Delve" out of the name as they are really just mini-adventures and we got rid of standing in line for 2 hours with generics (now you can buy a ticket for a specific time and skip wasting time in lines).

So now you can sit and make a character (and get a button I believe) then have a game with a super cool patient DM taking his time to expalin things, or dip your toe into the water with a 90 minute game and if you like that step up to a 4-hour game. We are clever like that at times.

Dave C
The Baldman
Baldman Games
RPGA Senior GM and Info Guy"

Whether that is better or not is probably up for debate.

 

[MortalPlague]

I don't know about Gen Con, but I've been a PAX DM for three years running, and I've had a blast running tables each time. Last year, WotC had a vastly scaled-down presence. Rumor was they were pouring all the money into Gen Con for the 5th Edition launch. This year, there is no official WotC Adventurer's League play at PAX. So wherever the money is going, it's not going to PAX.

 

[aramis erak]

But, if Bill91 is right and 1/2 to 2/3rds of Gen Con goers aren't into RPG's, why would you bother having a presence there? What would be the point? Dropping thousands of dollars to speak to so few people? The board gamers and card gamers are there to play board and card games. Why would someone who is heavily into board games sign up to play a 5e D&D game? Or go to a WOTC seminar about role playing games?

It sounds like Gen Con itself has stopped being about RPG's if over half the con goers aren't into RPG's.

Gen Con predates RPGs existing. Gen Con has always had minis gaming. Gygax started it in 1968 for minis wargames and counters-on-maps wargames. GenCon I was 1968...

 

[Henry]

For some reason Ecclesiastes 3:1 from the Bible keeps playing in my head when I read this thread. It's kind of the bottom line here:

Gencon is a very different Con from 20 years ago, or even just 10 years ago; and each one is precious for what we can experience there. It's better to accept that than to be upset about the state of WotC's presence there now. It will be different from that in the future, still - the more non-tabletop focus, you'll see even more alternate gaming media presence in GenCons to come.

 

[billd91]

I don't know about Gen Con, but I've been a PAX DM for three years running, and I've had a blast running tables each time. Last year, WotC had a vastly scaled-down presence. Rumor was they were pouring all the money into Gen Con for the 5th Edition launch. This year, there is no official WotC Adventurer's League play at PAX. So wherever the money is going, it's not going to PAX.

Well, if they poured their money into the 5e launch at Gen Con, it sure didn't buy very much. Must not have been much money.