D&D 5E Campaign Settings 5e- Why I want to Forget the Realms

[GMforPowergamers]

I really think that so many of the problems people have with the Realms have more to do with what poor DMs have done with the Realms than the Realms themselves.
There's a lot of NPCs in the Realms that can become DM PCs or portrayed as Mary Sues. Even if they're really not.

yea people tell me that all the time... the problem is my first problems were nothing like that... I played in a 2e realms game I liked, then I talked to a guy at a con and told him how cool my game was, and he told me how BS it was... then in 3.0 I tried to run a game in the realms, and two of the players were super hyped (they had requested a realms game a few times) and then everything went south when they basicly took for grantit what they new then got mad when I ruled otherwise...

so no it wasn't A gm, then (still back in 3.0) I came here and to wiz site for help and was sent to someplace called candle keep... it was then explained how I did everything wrong, and how ed has elminster heal PCs well training a dog, or lets them escape by causeing distractions... only then did I start to hear about the huge NPCs... my hate has 0 to do with GMs...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Some players can be to blame, too. For every wannabe that insisted on playing a Drizzt clone, there's likely more than one person who played with him that hates Drizzt.

I find a lot of people that hate Drizzt don't even know how his character works or have read any of the books with him. People hate him because a ton of people were ripping him off at some point. Following this the halo effect came in and started making other people dislike Drizzt even if they had never read any of his stuff or had someone rip him off in a game. Course some people have read his books and dislike him. Which is a matter of taste.

Anyway Drizzt is nothing super special in the realms. He's a great swords man and ranger with good magic gear. But lots of PC's have that. Anyway guys good but he is not saving the world or region on his own. (In a funny little piece of triva I recently learned, Salvatore did not know Drizzt would be in Baldur's Gate so when he encountered him in the game he was suprised and the first thing he tried to do was kill him and take his stuff.)

Elminster is more of the world saving type. But the guy rarely gets involved in stuff and lots of the time the guy just liked to run around making criptic remarks to advetures and doing his own thing while goofing off. I can't speak more of Elminster as I have not read his books.

 

[Corpsetaker]

I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the Realms is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue.

Let's look at a few things.

1: Too many overpowered NPC's: Well unless those NPC's are breaking into your DM's home and writing themselves into the campaign, then they don't have to be present. Elminster doesn't have the "Detect everything that happens in a 100,000 KM radius" power. These NPC's are there for people who want to use them and for people who can just as easily remove them. I find this argument the weakest of all because you have the power to remove them.

2: Products: I own every FR product from 1st and 2nd edition and there are loads of adventures that star the PC's and only the PC's. Elminster or Drizzt don't swing in to save the say.

3: An established world: The Realms is a living and breathing world. That is the schtick of this particular campaign world. Same would be for Dark Sun and Al-Qadim with regards to lots of sand and sun.

4: Setting itself: The Realms is a "HUGE" place with lot's of areas that have not been established yet. There are lots of areas for people to pick out and make their own.

You can separate the novels from the actual setting. The beauty of FR is you can play right along with the novels or you can create your own stories and heroes that make their place in history. You can even pick a point in time, thanks to products from the Arcane Age and Grand History of the Realms, and run a campaign in the past and change history.

 

[Corpsetaker]

(In a funny little piece of triva I recently learned, Salvatore did not know Drizzt would be in Baldur's Gate so when he encountered him in the game he was suprised and the first thing he tried to do was kill him and take his stuff.)

I actually did this.

 

[Mephista]

I see a lot of Drizz't and Elminster hate, but I don't even see anyone try to play them in game. I really think its more of an excuse to hate what's popular ninety percent of the time.

I don't like the gods or the Wall of the Faithless set up. I'm a bit tired of the generic Medieval, human-dominated Europe-clone setting of the Sword Coast (and every FR game I've seen has been there). The outdated and oversexualized model of antagonists is annoying - orc and drow societies are just flat out unrealistic to the point it falls apart with the least bit of scrutiny. I don't like gnomes having gunpowder.

Plenty of reason to not play in the Realms for me.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

1: Too many overpowered NPC's: Well unless those NPC's are breaking into your DM's home and writing themselves into the campaign, then they don't have to be present. Elminster doesn't have the "Detect everything that happens in a 100,000 KM radius" power. These NPC's are there for people who want to use them and for people who can just as easily remove them. I find this argument the weakest of all because you have the power to remove them.

They don't have to be there, but at a certain point it starts to strain verisimilitude that they're not. Elminster is an epic-level wizard with full access to divination spells; he doesn't literally have a "detect everything that happens" power, but what he does have comes pretty darn close. Sure, fifth-level PCs can probably clear out a gnoll stronghold or whatever without him getting involved, but major realm-spanning events? The DM has to account for him somehow.

3: An established world: The Realms is a living and breathing world. That is the schtick of this particular campaign world. Same would be for Dark Sun and Al-Qadim with regards to lots of sand and sun.

I don't understand your point here. Isn't that supposed to be the "schick" of every campaign world, and thus, not a schtick at all?

The beauty of FR is you can play right along with the novels or you can create your own stories and heroes that make their place in history. You can even pick a point in time, thanks to products from the Arcane Age and Grand History of the Realms, and run a campaign in the past and change history.

Again, this does not seem to be a trait that distinguishes the Realms from any other campaign setting -- or, hell, any fantasy novel that a DM might care to use for a campaign setting.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the Realms is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue.

and I find realms fans that refuse to acknowledge that anyone else has a real dislike for the setting are also just arguing to argue...

Nobody here said You shouldn't like it, heck I like parts and pieces, and even went out of my way a few years ago to create an Ultimate Realms for people who don't like the realms (like Ultimate Marvel comics it would take the basic idea and the best parts and leave out the parts people disliked).... how ever the fact that you think others dislike is disingenuous is crazy...

think for a minute about anything else... "I like superman, everyone should like superman the dislike for supermanis silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue."

"I like the Oakland Raiders, I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the Raiders is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue."

"I like the pitbulls, I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the pit bulls is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue."
"I like the strip clubs, I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the strip clubs is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue."

I like the _____________, I think a lot of the dislike that goes around for the ______ is silly, baseless, and just an excuse to argue
fill in that blank with anything... do you realize how insane a statement it is? People like and dislike different things, it isn't silly or baseless to like or dislike anything...

 

[Rod Staffwand]

The Forgotten Realms offers quantity of content over quality of content. Everything provided is some combination of bland, derivative, ill-considered or obnoxious. It's not blank enough to be a blank slate or flavorful enough to be evocative. It's a kitchen-sink setting that allows for a myriad of content, but does none of the heavy-lifting required to tie those disparate elements together. It tries for epic, but has trouble being fantastic.

The vast quantities of ultra-powerful adventurers, NPC, artifacts, etc. for adventure and story purposes:
1. Overshadow PC achievements ("You're a 12th level wizard? Who cares? There are literally 100 other ones in this city!").
2. Inconsistently have no impact on the background feel of the world (which remains stolidly generic medieval fantasy).
3. Draws too much focus to the natural mechanical breakdown of high-level D&D play (in that the powers and capabilities of said characters have no real correlation to fantasy fiction characters even within the FR canon or whose mechanical quirks make verisimilitude a challenge, such as a measurable percentage of the FR populace being able to fall 5000 feet onto solid stone, easily sucking up the 20d6 falling damage and walking away whistling).

Finally, FR splatbooks from the 3X era were some of the worst WotC ever put out--poorly edited, poorly conceived and just broken.

Nope. Not a fan.

 

[Remathilis]

They don't have to be there, but at a certain point it starts to strain verisimilitude that they're not. Elminster is an epic-level wizard with full access to divination spells; he doesn't literally have a "detect everything that happens" power, but what he does have comes pretty darn close. Sure, fifth-level PCs can probably clear out a gnoll stronghold or whatever without him getting involved, but major realm-spanning events? The DM has to account for him somehow.

I'm not sure how this works post 4e and the death of a lot of the uber-NPCs due to the 100 year jump and Spellplague, but I've always viewed the powerful wizards of the Realms as basically being in a Cold War; If Elminster can show up and destroy Tiamat's cult in a spell, why can't Manshoon show up in Neverwinter and lay it to waste? For the most part, a lot of the time the uber-NPCs have is spent subtly checking the other uber NPCs. Elminster sends a group of heroes (that the Zhents, Red Wizards, or Church of Bane have no reason to be scrying on) to go do things because if he did them, he'd leave himself too open to an attack by someone wanting to take him down. So even if Elminster went and destroyed Tiamat's cult; he'd be spent on magic and resources and all it'd take is Manshoon to scry on and teleport in fully prepped and finish Elminster off.

If you think of it in the context of the USA/USSR Superpowers, it makes a lot of sense. Both nations had enough nuclear weapons to destroy the other, and they knew any real move against the other would insure Mutually Assured Destruction. So they acted through proxy nations and allies that were much smaller and less threatening in an attempt to gain the slightest advantage. The epic-level mages are the superpowers and they know using their best weapons will trigger others to use theirs (creating a Realms equivalent MAD) so they act through smaller proxy groups (red wizards, harpers, or random adventuring parties) to gain slight advantage.