D&D 5E Kender as an appropriate race

[Arial Black]

ok, how about this one (Not my own story but one shared years ago when I first had my own bad experience) a locked room in a dungeon (literal dungeon/old ruins) needed a gem inserted to open it, the PCs looked everywhere for it, and after an entire night wasted the GM told the players at around midnight as they were cleaning up the kender had it the whole time... he had picked it up 4 rooms earlier. The player defended himself with the classic "Hey my character didn't even remember it..." so the next month (they were playing monthly) they got together and said to have the kender empty his pockets at the begning of game... and they also found a missing +1 ring of protection, and another PC's locket both had gone missing game earlier... so the player who had his locket 'borrowed' went to take a swing at the kender... the Player of the kender called a time out he thought that there wasn't going to be any PVP in the game....

Stealing another PC's stuff is PvP!

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Why didn't the Kender pull out the gemstone? If they knew it needed a gem to open then the Kender could have said "Hey, I have one just like it, maybe it will work." I feel like people are missing out on roleplaying opportunities, however small they may be.

I don't know, no one I know does for sure... over the years as he has retold it we have theories... but only that. (The player forgot, the player was yoking it up, the player didn't connect the two)

Not sure I understand the ring and the locket, a Kender may pick up something unattended but if a player is wearing the ring or the locket then it is unlikely to end up in the kender's pouch.

I know this one...well half of it, the locket was from the character's family, and he would take it off at night and leave it with his armor, one morning he woke up to it gone...

I can see a player who is missing a locket simply asking the Kender if they have one like it and the Kender player, upon finding it, would happily give the locket to their friend to "replace" the locket they lost. Kender are attached to their pouches, not the items inside them.

because of note passing (something I am against but used to be for) no one knew the kender had them, and some of the players had no idea what the kender was....

Stealing another PC's stuff is PvP!

I agree... that DM and player didn't see it that way though

 

[GSHamster]

It's interesting what racial traits are considered "mandatory" and what aren't. In a lot of settings, elves are xenophobic racists. Yet PC elves are almost never like that (aside from pointed mocking of dwarves). If a PC truly played a racist elf, that would do a lot of damage to the party.

I don't really understand why kender traits need to be at their extreme to be "real", while similar traits from the other races can be downplayed.

 

[MG.0]

ok, how about this one (Not my own story but one shared years ago when I first had my own bad experience) a locked room in a dungeon (literal dungeon/old ruins) needed a gem inserted to open it, the PCs looked everywhere for it, and after an entire night wasted the GM told the players at around midnight as they were cleaning up the kender had it the whole time... he had picked it up 4 rooms earlier. The player defended himself with the classic "Hey my character didn't even remember it..." so the next month (they were playing monthly) they got together and said to have the kender empty his pockets at the begning of game... and they also found a missing +1 ring of protection, and another PC's locket both had gone missing game earlier... so the player who had his locket 'borrowed' went to take a swing at the kender... the Player of the kender called a time out he thought that there wasn't going to be any PVP in the game...

that was my ex roommate's first encounter with a kender... when not only the 2e campaign ended, but that player was kicked fromt he group, and the DM was so mad he quite the group....

That is bad DM'ing. You don't let players do things that affect other players without their knowledge.

It's one thing for their characters not to know, but it is never good form for the players not to.

If anyone knew what a kender was, the first place you'd look for a useful item would be the kender's pouches. They simply should've asked him, at which point the kender would gladly dump out everything he owns and talk about it. That's how you play a kender.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Personally, I don't--and never did--think that the rampant kleptomania, the dogged refusal to understand the concept of property, or the implausible lack of fear were really the fundamental issue with the Kender race. It's entirely possible to have any or even all of those things in a race that still "makes sense" in some fashion. Consider Rowling's goblins and their concept of "property," which is profoundly Marxist: an object is eternally owned by its creator. If it is commissioned by someone else, then they are given right to it, perhaps even for their entire lives, but a "sale" is never "in perpetuity." Creation--labor--is a sacred bond between the worker and the work, and refusing to return a work to its creator when the..."leasing" party dies, is theft. This is a profoundly different idea of property than that of humans, or indeed any other (mentioned) species, in the Harry Potter universe--but it is not an incomprehensible one.

But none of this is to say that Kender don't have a fundamental flaw. They absolutely do. And this fundamental flaw is mixed into their very core, it is clay mingled into the iron. The oft-cited, and somewhat expletive-heavy, image regarding the Kender makes this very clear:

Kender are canonically innocent. They are canonically incapable of actually 'being thieves,' or doing anything genuinely evil. They're "almost completely incorruptible," they are "the innocents of the world," they supposedly "hate thieves" (how can you hate thievery if you don't understand property?) but will confabulate or even outright lie when their "borrowings" are discovered, etc.

*That* is the thing that breaks the race. *That* is the thing which pigeonholes them into an archetype so narrow, I'm not sure a player can remain completely faithful to it while playing an interesting, dynamic character. *That* is what makes all the rest of it dangerous and problematic. If, instead, they were adrenaline-junkies and incorrigible secret-finders ("every lock needs to be opened, every chest hides something interesting," from their opening blurb), who freely admitted that their behavior was sometimes uncouth but didn't care because caring about that is boring, they would be dramatically more interesting to play--and the potential dangers of their archetype would be much more obvious.

 

[Gnashtooth]

Having a Kender not be disruptive is a very group-centric issue and shouldn't be taken lightly. The Kender player in question should not be able to choose when and where they accidentally steal from other PCs. That is the fatal flaw that gets so many groups hating them. Kleptomaniacs, at least in theory if not truth, do not consciously/intentionally steal. So just like any other factors that are out of the PCs' control, so should the Kender's subconscious theft be. If the DM decides to have that kender stealing things at inopportune times, that's then on the DM, not the player. The kender has never been, nor were they ever intended as carte blanche to ruin someone else's fun.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

It's interesting what racial traits are considered "mandatory" and what aren't. In a lot of settings, elves are xenophobic racists. Yet PC elves are almost never like that (aside from pointed mocking of dwarves). If a PC truly played a racist elf, that would do a lot of damage to the party.

I don't know about that. I played an elf who was pretty darn racist for the longest time. I mean, it wasn't the wisest thing to start saying his opinions out loud, so he kept them to himself. And he was still good aligned, he just felt that other races NEEDED him to save them because they weren't really capable of doing it themselves, being lesser, of course.

He fit in fairly well with every group he joined(being an organized play character, he often had a different party every adventure). People who found out about his opinions would roll their eyes at him and not many of them wanted to drink with him after the adventure. But they were willing to give him a pass because he was a powerful wizard and would do anything to help his party...even while he talked down to them.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The entire silverware collection? That doesn't sound like a Kender. The Kender would maybe absentmindedly pocket one or two pieces as they are getting up to leave but not the entire silverware collection and not in the middle of dinner. I think part of the problem is that people think the Kender take everything that isn't nailed down which certainly isn't how I've read them.

Well, everything within reach from his place at the table. They were shiny and he liked the look of them, so he pocketed them. It's just that he rolled low on his skill check to pocket them and he was spotted. He didn't understand why someone would be so angry. After all, they seemed to be giving them to him. That's why they put them right next to him, right? He was only trying to SNEAK them into his bag because he knows that sometimes the big races don't understand when he takes things without asking. If only they were more like Kender and didn't CARE if he took them, then he wouldn't have to be so sneaky.

That conversation only went so well. Thus the getting thrown in jail.

Besides, we had this conversation out of character with the player of that Kender. He said that, of course, Kender didn't steal everything that wasn't nailed down. They only took things that interested them in some way. The silverware was very polished and shiny and his character felt the need to have it. He didn't understand it was valuable or that anyone would care if he took it at all. That's why he did it in the middle of dinner because why would he need to wait?

 

[Elf Witch]

ok, how about this one (Not my own story but one shared years ago when I first had my own bad experience) a locked room in a dungeon (literal dungeon/old ruins) needed a gem inserted to open it, the PCs looked everywhere for it, and after an entire night wasted the GM told the players at around midnight as they were cleaning up the kender had it the whole time... he had picked it up 4 rooms earlier. The player defended himself with the classic "Hey my character didn't even remember it..." so the next month (they were playing monthly) they got together and said to have the kender empty his pockets at the begning of game... and they also found a missing +1 ring of protection, and another PC's locket both had gone missing game earlier... so the player who had his locket 'borrowed' went to take a swing at the kender... the Player of the kender called a time out he thought that there wasn't going to be any PVP in the game...

that was my ex roommate's first encounter with a kender... when not only the 2e campaign ended, but that player was kicked fromt he group, and the DM was so mad he quite the group....

Everything you describes I have seen happen with a rogue. This was not a race issue but a player issue. Kenders are written up that they are helpful going off Tass he would have immediately pulled out the gem just like he would have pulled out the ring of protection if the player asked has anyone seen my ring.