D&D 5E Yes, No, Warlord

[El Mahdi]

How about this as a compromise on healing...


Level 2: Inspiring word: As a bonus action, an ally can spend a hit die.

Level 3: Sub-Class
*Medic: You can cast cleric spells with a 1/3 progression.

Level 4: you can pick up the healer feat.

The problems I see are thus:

1. Linking Hit Point recovery to Hit Dice extremely limits the amount of hit point recovery a Warlord can inspire (making them almost useless in this regard), and simply replaces a character using their Hit Dice themselves during a short rest. The adventuring day is now limited by Hit Dice in a non-magic campaign. The only thing this adds is that you can now use Hit Dice to recover Hit Points during combat, rather than just during a Short Rest. One of the intentions of the Warlord was to be able to replace the Cleric with a non-magical source of Hit Point recovery. Not to mention that no other class that can provide Hit Points are limited in this way.

It's only a compromise if one is okay with limiting healing spells in this manner (healing spells require a character to use their Hit Dice). I doubt you'll find many that would accept that.


2. Casting Cleric spells goes against the non-magical nature of a Warlord. They would no longer be a Warlord, but narratively, conceptually, and mechanically they would be a Divine spellcaster.


3. While a player could certainly build their Warlord to be a capable physician/medic, that isn't an inherent aspect of the concept. Removing the Inspirational based Hit Point recovery in favor of the Healer Feat - or adding it to augment the Warlord's Hit Pont recovery mechanics, an augmentation that shouldn't be needed in the first place - is not a compromise; it's completely changing the narrative and concept in order to appease those that don't like it. Which by the way, wouldn't work anyways. It's more than just the inspirational hit point recovery proponents have issues with.


It's obvious your heart is in the right place, but these aren't feasible, nor are they compromises.

 

[ZickZak]

One of the intentions of the Warlord was to be able to replace the Cleric with a non-magical source of Hit Point recovery. Not to mention that no other class that can provide Hit Points are limited in this way.

How exactly do they heal then if it isnt a spell?

 

[mellored]

The problems I see are thus:

1. Linking Hit Point recovery to Hit Dice extremely limits the amount of hit point recovery a Warlord can inspire (making them almost useless in this regard), and simply replaces a character using their Hit Dice themselves during a short rest. The adventuring day is now limited by Hit Dice in a non-magic campaign. The only thing this adds is that you can now use Hit Dice to recover Hit Points during combat, rather than just during a Short Rest. One of the intentions of the Warlord was to be able to replace the Cleric with a non-magical source of Hit Point recovery. Not to mention that no other class that can provide Hit Points are limited in this way.

They could still have plenty of indirect healing (THP, DR, +to AC) to extend the day.

Spending a hit die to get someone off the ground seemed like the minimal amount of HP healing possible. (since THP, DR, or +to AC doesn't help when your unconscious).


What about spend a hit die and gain +Cha as THP?

2. Casting Cleric spells goes against the non-magical nature of a Warlord. They would no longer be a Warlord, but narratively, conceptually, and mechanically they would be a Divine spellcaster.

Yea, that's the hitch i was waiting for.

Fair enough.

3. While a player could certainly build their Warlord to be a capable physician/medic, that isn't an inherent aspect of the concept.

I agree. Which is why i though it might be ok having the healing focused build be a cleric sub-class. Which would not bother the other side.

It's obvious your heart is in the right place, but these aren't feasible, nor are they compromises.

I'm ok with failure.

 

[Tony Vargas]

How exactly do they heal then if it isnt a spell?

They never did heal in the sense a spell (or prayer, or weeks of rest) could be seen as doing, they restored hps via Inpiration, thus "Inspiring Word" as their basic leader-role-support power. 'Healing' was just the jargon for restoring hps, in the case of the Warlord, it wasn't literal. A Fighter who had been repeatedly beaten down and had all his surges triggered by a Warlord would look about the same as one that had been repeatedly beaten down and spent all his surges via Second Wind and short rests. Wounds didn't disappear after a 5 min rest or Second Wind, and they didn't when a Warlord Inspired you, either.

The same could apply in 5e: an hour's rest (or even an overnight rest) doesn't make wounds disappear, but either can restore all your lost hps (the former assuming you have enough HD left and roll decently), and, by the same token the Warlord's brand of Inspiration could restore lost hps, even though any wounds that might be associated with them would remain.

 

[ZickZak]

They never did heal in the sense a spell (or prayer, or weeks of rest) could be seen as doing, they restored hps via Inpiration, thus "Inspiring Word" as their basic leader-role-support power. 'Healing' was just the jargon for restoring hps, in the case of the Warlord, it wasn't literal. A Fighter who had been repeatedly beaten down and had all his surges triggered by a Warlord would look about the same as one that had been repeatedly beaten down and spent all his surges via Second Wind and short rests. Wounds didn't disappear after a 5 min rest or Second Wind, and they didn't when a Warlord Inspired you, either.

Yea I get that but that is just what we get out of that. Statistically, it's still healing. You suffer no penalties. And either way, how exactly does that work if it isn't bandaging the wound and it isn't magical "healing"...? That is what I'd like to know.

 

[Remathilis]

Yea I get that but that is just what we get out of that. Statistically, it's still healing. You suffer no penalties. And either way, how exactly does that work if it isn't bandaging the wound and it isn't magical "healing"...? That is what I'd like to know.

The same way that Second Wind works for a fighter; hand-waving.

 

[ZickZak]

The same way that Second Wind works for a fighter; hand-waving.

With the Second Wind the individual uses its own stamina. I struggle to imagine how something that isn't magical heals someone else mid-fight because you tell them to. Warlord is completely build-able IMO.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yea I get that but that is just what we get out of that. Statistically, it's still healing. You suffer no penalties. And either way, how exactly does that work if it isn't bandaging the wound and it isn't magical "healing"...? That is what I'd like to know.

The Warlord Inspired (thus, 'Inspiring Word' as I already said) his allies to keep fighting when they would otherwise be unable to due to hp loss (which could represent wounds, blood loss, poisoning, lightning-like shocks, burns, hypothermia from cold-based attacks, psychic damage, failing morale, being mocked viciously by a bard, luck running out, and a host of other things, and which, as has already been established by the existence of Second Wind, overnight healing and HD in the standard game, need not require the specific mechanism of hp loss be magically reversed).

I hope that's an adequate capsule explanation. You can go back and read many threads on the subject, if you like, but we've already been warned about bringing up the same questions repeatedly in this thread, and this one has come up before.

The same way that Second Wind works for a fighter

You have a limited well of stamina you can draw upon...

With the Second Wind the individual uses its own stamina.

That's the official explanation, a DM could rule otherwise, and a player could always imagine another one. But it seems adequate.

I struggle to imagine how something that isn't magical heals someone else mid-fight because you tell them to.

Part of your struggle may be with taking healing literally - a serious wound could take weeks to heal, obviously, Second Wind, HD, overnight 'healing,' and Warlord inspiration do not heal in that sense. Once you get past that misconception it's not hard to imagine, at all. Just basing it on Second Wind, as Remathilis suggests, for instance: Everyone could have such a 'well of Stamina,' but not have the Fighter's ability to draw on it without encouragement. The Warlord can provide that extraordinary encouragement, some of the time.

That idea also overlaps with the concept of HD. Thus the ideas up-thread about Warlords allowing their allies to spend HD in combat.

 

[ZickZak]

Right. Thanks.

So people who don't wanna build the warlord from the classes we have want what really? What are the unique options warlord would bring? (If you care enough to answer)
Thanks

 

[mellored]

Right. Thanks.

So people who don't wanna build the warlord from the classes we have want what really? What are the unique options warlord would bring? (If you care enough to answer)
Thanks

Non-daily (and non-magical) support.

IMO: At will dice / maneuvers, like the playtest fighter, would be ideal.

And give the passive support aura to the mystic/ardent.