D&D 5E Persuade, Intimidate, and Deceive used vs. PCs

[Tony Vargas]

it's as unrealistically as data turning off his emotion chip... it is the only example I can find of CHOOSEING not to be intimidated... Now if you can find me a better example go for it. As long as you are argueing that I'm taking away choice you are telling your players to all play androids....

Last time I brought this up it just spawned an unintended digression, but, that's an example of the character taking an action that eliminated an emotional reaction, not a player making a decision about the character's emotional reaction.

FWIW, I'm not sanguine about a resolution method that depends upon the player rather than the character. The character you're playing should make a difference to how an action is resolved.

 

[Hriston]

yes and in the real world I would like examples of chooseing to be intimidated or not... not choices of not doing what the intimidator wants, but choices to turn off the fear center of your brain....

Fear can be controlled by using the proper breathing technique and engaging your rational mind. Just recognizing your fear level and counting it down to a lower level can do this. People control their emotions all the time.

When it comes to intimidation, however, I don't think a simple fight or flight response is the whole, or even biggest part of the picture. The decision to give in to intimidation can be entirely rational and driven by self preservation.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Last time I brought this up it just spawned an unintended digression, but, that's an example of the character taking an action that eliminated an emotional reaction, not a player making a decision about the character's emotional reaction.

FWIW, I'm not sanguine about a resolution method that depends upon the player rather than the character. The character you're playing should make a difference to how an action is resolved.

that is soo funny... If you think about it that is just an expansion of [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] 'you must use actions not out of game quastions' now it is taking it to it's most ridicules extreme case... but since [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] has refused to budge or even consider another point of view I almost can see it.

 

[iserith]

that is soo funny... If you think about it that is just an expansion of [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] 'you must use actions not out of game quastions' now it is taking it to it's most ridicules extreme case... but since [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] has refused to budge or even consider another point of view I almost can see it.

Huh?

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Huh?

"I use my action to turn off my emotions, now I can't be intimidated" is a crazy example of taking your 'take actions in game' and your 'PCs get to be in full control no matter what inless magic' rules and taking them to the extreme...

It's funnier still because you argued earlier that you wont even tell a character they are cold or hot (also an extrme and funny use of said rules)

I get the feeling your not really here to talk to anyone anyway... you just want to say your way, pretend its the only true interpretation of the rules, then pretend people are doing something there not.

Jedi and Powergamer have both in the last 70 pages explained that when you take there entire play style as a whole they take no control from the PCs, you however insist that if you dropped one ruling into your style it would take away control... but it doesnt' with them. You wont take an over head look at the whole situation but instead keep trying look at it through a lens of your game.

I will say, I would rather be in [MENTION=6153]DM[/MENTION]forpowergamers then one of yours in this one way... I would prefer to be told out right "This is what is going on" the way he does it then be given an indepth list of adjatives and need to figure out what you are going for. I also like the ability to just friendly bantor at the table and ask quastions when things come up...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fear can be controlled by using the proper breathing technique and engaging your rational mind. Just recognizing your fear level and counting it down to a lower level can do this. People control their emotions all the time.

When it comes to intimidation, however, I don't think a simple fight or flight response is the whole, or even biggest part of the picture. The decision to give in to intimidation can be entirely rational and driven by self preservation.

your breathing technique will help you once you feel scared or intimidated, but they wont stop the intial body build up... I would be totally cool with you RPing that in the middle of my haunted house game... or not if you don't want to.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How intimidating the orc tries to be is the DM describing the environment.

and his role indicates how well it works... see I can describe anyone anyway I want, and sometimes I do, but the skills are part of it.

I see no need for the rules to come into play at this point because there is no uncertainty

how are you 100% certain in how intimidating the moster is?

as to how the characters respond - they respond according to the players' desires.

gee...just like my game, funny how you ignore that fact over and over and over again... because you would rather every player play DATA androids

But I'm not even objecting to the use of dice to inform the DM's description. That's none of my business as a player - I only care about the description itself, not what informed it.

yet you object to my description of a cold chill, the heebe gebes, and the intimidating orc...

Rather, I'm objecting to the DM establishing my character's response to stimuli e.g. "You're intimidated."

that's because being intimidated IS the stimuli, and it is informed by game mechanic, now how your character response to it is up to you...

DM 1 :It is raining
DM 2: It's a bad storm and your soaked

DM 1: the orc lets out a visural war cry and hefts his magic axe. His supioror muscles and power obvius as he threatens you. You can tell by his well worn armor and weapins that this is not an ordinary orc, but one with skill and expernce.

DM2: the lest out his war cray and shoulders his Axe, I got a 17+9 so 26 Intimadate cheak so he is pretty scary...

 

[Sunseeker]

I wasn't aware this thread was a battle on whose DM style was better. Pretty sure we're not even supposed to do that here.

You don't like someone's gaming style? Whatever. All of this "I'd never play at your table!" stuff is just pointless posturing.

There's no need to fight about it.

 

[Shirebrok]

how are you 100% certain in how intimidating the moster is?

Easy. Because he says so. He's the one running the game, not the rules or the dice. As the DM, what he says, goes. That monster will be as intimidating as he needs it to be, and then he'll convey that information while framing the scene.

 

[iserith]

"I use my action to turn off my emotions, now I can't be intimidated" is a crazy example of taking your 'take actions in game' and your 'PCs get to be in full control no matter what inless magic' rules and taking them to the extreme...

It's funnier still because you argued earlier that you wont even tell a character they are cold or hot (also an extrme and funny use of said rules)

I agree that the examples you cite are crazy. I don't agree that what you're saying is funny.

I get the feeling your not really here to talk to anyone anyway... you just want to say your way, pretend its the only true interpretation of the rules, then pretend people are doing something there not.

All evidence to the contrary.

Jedi and Powergamer have both in the last 70 pages explained that when you take there entire play style as a whole they take no control from the PCs, you however insist that if you dropped one ruling into your style it would take away control... but it doesnt' with them. You wont take an over head look at the whole situation but instead keep trying look at it through a lens of your game.

And I've shown where they are indeed establishing the response a character has to stimuli. It's okay if they don't care that they do that and have fun in the process, but they are doing it. That they are doing it means I would not enjoy that game.

I will say, I would rather be in [MENTION=6153]DM[/MENTION]forpowergamers then one of yours in this one way... I would prefer to be told out right "This is what is going on" the way he does it then be given an indepth list of adjatives and need to figure out what you are going for. I also like the ability to just friendly bantor at the table and ask quastions when things come up...

I don't doubt that there are people who would like to be told how their character responds to stimuli in the way the aforementioned posters do. It's not for me though.