D&D 5E Paladins in SCAG are all good-aligned?

[Flamestrike]

Page 131. "Different paladin orders in the Forgotten Realms emphasize different elements of righteous behavior, but all paladins are expected to hold true to a common set of virtues:
Liberality. Be generous and tolerant.
Good faith. Be honest and keep promises.
etc."

Am I reading this correctly? It looks like paladins are supposed to be "good" and "honest". I thought we were done with only Lawful Good paladins? It does mention later on that some Orders value one specific virtue more than other, but I thought "virtue" was not even a requirement to be a paladin in 5E.

What am I missing?

Looks like thats the expectation and not the rule.

I like to beak the mold. My LE Paladin of Bane certainly doesnt adhere to them (despite being honorable). Ruling the weak is a solemn duty of the strong. As is the unfortunate but necessary occasional pogroms and acts of genocide and murder.

All for the greater good of mankind course.

 

[Flamestrike]

Does the PHB provide any guidance on evil paladins? I know the alignment restriction is gone, but I still got the impression that paladins are holy knights.

It'd be weird for an evil paladin to do radiant damage with his smite.

Vengance Paladins are LN at best (their oath encourages acts of genocide, and pitiless murder) so even LN is a stretch.

Oath breakers do radiant damage and they have to be evil.

Its hourseruled in my game that evil paladins (and clerics) deal necrotic damage instead with any spell or class feature that would normally inflict radiant damage.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Flamestrike]

THIS.

If I had to point to the single worst "Gygax-ian" error in 1e, it was the decision to use ability prerequisites, role-playing restrictions, and other junk to try and restrict classes. Because in actual practice, it didn't work. If someone wants something cool, they'll get it somehow.

It just never made sense in so many ways (just think- in order to get super cool abilities, you have to start off with really, really high ability scores ... OH NOES ... I can't imagine any problems with that).

All that said, I do kind of miss the old LG jerk Paladins. Say what you will about the tenets of the 1e Paladin, dude, but at least it's an ethos.

We're still self righteous jerks.

We just come in different flavors of self righteous jerk nowadays.

 

[dmnqwk]

I think the problem is when they created Paladins they were unsure how to balance them with Clerics in terms of being a temple champion.

I've always seen Paladins as merely "holy warriors", fighters who champion a religious cause for their deity. If you're worshipping a deity considered evil you're no less a paladin, provided you uphold his beliefs. It's a common error they still make when describing Paladins as being "holy and charitable" which basically rules out selfish paladins who uphold the beliefs of selfish lying scumbag deities, something which should not happen. Damn their religious intolerances in the phb! *snicker*

 

[discosoc]

The alignment restriction was partially in place to balance the original paladin's powerful special abilities, when compared to every other class - and we've all seen that trying to balance a set of abilities with RP restrictions is a near-impossible task, because it relies heavily on each game's adjudicator and set of players.

Actually, I believe the original 'balancing' method was by making the stat requirements so high. It differed by edition, but I all required a 17+ charisma. Of course, that's easier to hit when you had GM's playing softball with allowing "rerolls" or whatever.

But the fact that Paladins were lawful good was a special thing, since so few people actually want to play lawful good. It was a restriction that epitomized the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" thing. Without that restriction, they may as well just be multiclass fighter/clerics.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

Actually, I believe the original 'balancing' method was by making the stat requirements so high. It differed by edition, but I all required a 17+ charisma. Of course, that's easier to hit when you had GM's playing softball with allowing "rerolls" or whatever.

Granted, a player needed high rolls to access the class in the first place, but to maintain those special abilities, the PC had to be played according to the Paladin's code of conduct - if the DM deemed that the PC's actions weren't according to code, the paladin abilities were stripped and the PC was just another fighter with high scores.

The code, theoretically, would keep the paladin's power from getting out of hand and being used willy-nilly for any purpose - but again, required a DM and group that strictly enforced the rule - if it wasn't strictly followed, if a lax adjudicator let the paladin have carte blanche to do anything, the paladin quickly became an overpowered member of a group.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Vengance Paladins are LN at best (their oath encourages acts of genocide, and pitiless murder) so even LN is a stretch.

Oath breakers do radiant damage and they have to be evil.

Its hourseruled in my game that evil paladins (and clerics) deal necrotic damage instead with any spell or class feature that would normally inflict radiant damage.

We have an Oath of Vengeance paladin that is LG. I think it's fairly open to interpretation given that there are races that are inherently evil, like Devils and demons.

I would houserule it the same way...evil paladin's would do necrotic damage rather than radiant. I just wasn't sure if that was ever mentioned as a possibility or if it would require houseruling.

 

[Delazar]

I would houserule it the same way...evil paladin's would do necrotic damage rather than radiant. I just wasn't sure if that was ever mentioned as a possibility or if it would require houseruling.

I don't know... Is Radiant the power of good, or the power of the gods (both good and evil). I think in 4e it was definitely the power originating from the Astral Sea, where the gods resided.

Maybe they should have called it Divine damage instead of Radiant damage.