What 5e got wrong

[Hussar]

I can agree with that. Back to the 3d6 default. We know it was the default because the other methods listed were explicitly called alternative methods. That means that none of them, 4d6 drop the lowest included, could possibly have been the default. I don't know why Gygax would make the default worse than the primary alternative method, but he did.

An alternative interpretation is that 3d6 in order was a holdover from ODnD. It's mentioned in 1e for that fact and players are told that it doesn't work so here are four alternatives to something you shouldn't use.

 

[Maxperson]

An alternative interpretation is that 3d6 in order was a holdover from ODnD. It's mentioned in 1e for that fact and players are told that it doesn't work so here are four alternatives to something you shouldn't use.

Something has to be default in order for there to be alternatives. If there was no default, it would be impossible to offer any alternatives since there would be nothing to be alternative to. 3d6 is all that's left to be default.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah this is what I was confusing with the spell.

1e, like 5e, is an exception based system. The rule in 1e is that elves cannot be resurrected. The rod is an exception that does not invalidate that rule.

 

[Nagol]

I can agree with that. Back to the 3d6 default. We know it was the default because the other methods listed were explicitly called alternative methods. That means that none of them, 4d6 drop the lowest included, could possibly have been the default. I don't know why Gygax would make the default worse than the primary alternative method, but he did.

3d6 isn't offered. It is acknowledged as a system -- probably because of its use in previous versions of the game. Here's the quote from the DMG:

As AD&D is an ongoing game of fantasy adventuring, it is important to allow participants to generate a viable character of the race and profession which he or she desires.

While it is possible to generate some fairly playable characters by rolling 3d6, there is often an extended period of attempts at finding a suitable one due to quirks of the dice. Furthermore, these rather marginal characters tend to have short life expectancy - which tends to discourage new players, as does having to make do with some character of a race and/or class which he or she really can't or won't identify with. Character generation, then, is a serious matter, and it is recommended that the following systems be used. Four alternatives are offered for player characters:

As you can see, there are 4 offered systems. The simplest is 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as desired.

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

3d6 isn't offered. It is acknowledged as a system -- probably because of its use in previous versions of the game. Here's the quote from the DMG:



As you can see, there are 4 offered systems. The simplest is 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as desired.

Actually, that quote acknowledges that 3d6 is the assumed system, and indicates the four listed methods as alternatives to the standard assumed method - it just does so in the least direct way possible.

 

[Hussar]

Considering it straight up recommends using methods one to four, and actively discourages you from using a method that isn't even on the list, I'd disagree with that interpretation.

Note they are listed as "Method I-IV" not "Alternative Methods"

The only way a player would even know about 3d6 in order would be from ODnD. Anyone who never played that wouldn't even know to use it. I first played Moldvay Basic which also doesn't use 3d6 in order. In that system, you can exchange points from one stat to another at a 2:1 rate.

The idea that there was a "default" system in ADnD is a very large stretch.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Maxperson]

3d6 isn't offered. It is acknowledged as a system -- probably because of its use in previous versions of the game. Here's the quote from the DMG:



As you can see, there are 4 offered systems. The simplest is 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as desired.

There are not 4 offered systems. There are 4 alternative systems offered as your quote rightly points out. They have to be alternative to something, and that something is 3d6.

 

[Maxperson]

Considering it straight up recommends using methods one to four, and actively discourages you from using a method that isn't even on the list, I'd disagree with that interpretation.

And you'd be objectively wrong. That it recommends using an ALTERNATIVE method does not mean that 3d6 isn't default. It just means that for some odd reason they chose 3d6 as default.

Note they are listed as "Method I-IV" not "Alternative Methods"

LOL Only if you can't read.

"Four alternatives are offered for player characters:"

That better? The methods are right after that colon showing that they are absolutely alternative methods. C'mon man. If you're going to make an argument, make one that at least has even a slim chance of being right.

 

[MostlyDm]

And you'd be objectively wrong. That it recommends using an ALTERNATIVE method does not mean that 3d6 isn't default. It just means that for some odd reason they chose 3d6 as default.

They didn't really choose 3d6 as default for AD&D. It already was.

In the quoted passage Gygax acknowledges that 3d6 was the previously established default already. He couldn't change that. It was the default, like it or not.

Apparently, not. Hence the suggested alternatives.

Remember, for original AD&D the "A" was relevant. Stat rolling is not the only case where Gygax writes with the baseline assumption that the reader has played a lot of D&D and is now ready for the "advanced" version.

Over time this assumption may have proved less and less true, but it was still there.

So...yeah. 3d6 was the default in OD&D and consequently the assumed default in AD&D. Gygax offered some other suggestions because he apparently felt that this default method would be a less appropriate fit for AD&D than it was for basic D&D.