D&D 5E Strength is agile

[TheLoneRanger1979]

I'd favour great swords over long swords for shearing practicality though.

If dropping the damage down to 2d4 is still too powerful due to Great Weapon style, you can go down to d10 instead.

What would the expected value be for 2d4 (drop 1 and 2 on first roll)? around 6?

Nothing improvised about it. Stabbing, either as a straight thrust with hands on the handle, or shortened up with a hand holding the lower blade is a standard technique for a two-handed sword.

I agree. It just gives me more flavor when i say improvised
Heh....come to think of it..... if a PC half swords a great sword and make it a short spear, why not treat it like a spear and do 1d6 piercing damage..... but then, it doesn't really negate the resistance, does it...

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Which is entirely sensible for things like jumping, where he's only pushing against his body weight. Strength 8 is not bad when you only weigh 80 pounds. Doesn't make a lot of sense when, say, arm wrestling.

I must confess I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Are you attempting to imply arm wrestling would involve a Strength (Athletics) check and not just a Strength check? If so, I couldn't disagree more. And can see why you are having such an issue with 5e's skill system.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Ok, I just reread the rules in the PH. I understand how you are interpreting the wording. I still think you are wrong, but wording is genuinely ambiguous. It could benefit from errata clarification.

When it says, ‘you leap into the air a number of feet’, I interpret that to mean, a hurdle that is that number of feet in the air, whether the highjumper is in an upright position, a horizontal position, or whatever. The question is, did they avoid touching the threat that is that high.

Again, no. In fact, there is a specific section of the long jump rules for clearing a low obstacle. This is separate from the height achieved in a jump. And the high jump rules make a point of getting into the jump result equaling how far you can "clear" and how high up you can reach. Not how far you can swing your legs up over your head doing a super-splits.

And for the record, I do not find the rules in question to be ambiguous at all. Or in any kind of need for clarification or errata. So there's that.

 

[Salamandyr]

I must confess I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Are you attempting to imply arm wrestling would involve a Strength (Athletics) check and not just a Strength check? If so, I couldn't disagree more. And can see why you are having such an issue with 5e's skill system.

What athletics skill does and does not apply to in 5e, especially in areas not defined by the rules, like arm wrestling, is up to the DM to decide. I can pretty much see good arguments for either allowing it or not allowing it. But that is neither here nor there--I was just pointing out how, based on the description you gave, the rules created a logical conclusion (that fits with my earlier statement about the relative strength of halflings and half-orcs) while, using an example, how the rules would create, in another situation, an illogical result. And it appears you've decided that my example was poor so it invalidates my argument.

Be well, have a good day.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

You are correct. A DM can illogically apply the rules such that it would generate illogical results. But I do not see how that is a recrimination of the 5e skill system.

IMO, when you approach 5e's skill system in the correct way, these self-created issues fall away. I believe iserith is one of the best at explaining how to best do this.

Hope that helps. But either way, good day to you as well.

 

[Yaarel]

Researching.

 

[Yaarel]

Again, no. In fact, there is a specific section of the long jump rules for clearing a low obstacle. This is separate from the height achieved in a jump. And the high jump rules make a point of getting into the jump result equaling how far you can "clear" and how high up you can reach. Not how far you can swing your legs up over your head doing a super-splits.

And for the record, I do not find the rules in question to be ambiguous at all. Or in any kind of need for clarification or errata. So there's that.

I want to point out, your interpretation of the rules for highjump produces heights that are humanly impossible. Such an impossible interpretation defeats the purpose of comparing the 20 Strength to reallife humans.

The recording of competitive heights for the ‘vertical jump’, which appears to be what you are describing, seems fairly recent, perhaps arising from basketball, where players make a ‘running vertical jump’ to dunk the ball thru the hoop.

The world records appear to be:

Standing vertical jump: less than 2 feet
Running vertical jump: less than 4 feet



Thus the rules for highjump in the Players Handbook are using world record numbers for *clearing* a height. The rules dont refer to numbers for a vertical jump.

If important to adjudicate, it seems reasonable to estimate vertical jumps, by using the rules for longjump and highjump, but halving the standing height again.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

I want to point out, your interpretation of the rules for highjump produces heights that are humanly impossible. Such an impossible interpretation defeats the purpose of comparing the 20 Strength to reallife humans.

Perhaps the initial attempts to compare D&D's skill structure/mechanics with real life is the issue?

Just sayin'...

 

[Yaarel]

Talking about a ‘standing vertical jump’ reminded me of this image from the original post. Here a dancer has a posture that seems to me like he is springing directly upward from a standing position.

He looks like his jump is approaching 2 feet, which suggests his equivalent D&D Strength score is approaching 20.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

So you discount the ability to make a skill check to increase your jump attempt. Even though the rules allow for it? Interesting.

Either way, from that picture, I could see assigning a 20 strength to his legs, yes. They are what I would consider darn near peak human. Did you have a point to make with it? Other than assigning more D&D stats to more people?