What 5e got wrong

[Maxperson]

I agree there is no default method. 3d6 can't be default since it isn't presented as a method to use; it is presented as method to avoid.

First, you can't agree with him that there is a default and say that there is no default. Second, your second sentence is a false statement. 3d6 is not given as a method to avoid or not to use. It is given as a method that is not the best at achieving 1e stat goals, so better alternatives were given.

 

[overbyte]

Sounds neat; what app are you using?

I've switched around. I was using Initiative Tracker, which is good. Then I moved to DM Minion 5e. Right now I'm testing out Improved Initiative.

Any of those 3 are great. DM Minion 5e is the best out of the box.

 

[Ancalagon]

I always felt that 3d6 in order was the default for the general population. To ensure heroic characters, the alternative methods were invented - the PCs are a "cut above" the common human (dwarf etc).

aaaaaannyway, to get back on the things that 5e didn't do well: I'm a bit dismayed that the number of encounters per day seems to be so important for class balance. To me that number is highly variable between groups and scenarios, and shouldn't have been used for balancing.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Options =/= alternatives.

That's not what a quick Google search for definitions of alternative says.

Alternative, as a noun, is defined as "one of two or more available possibilities." and has the word "option" listed as a synonym.

 

[CapnZapp]

5e was a huge opportunity to do some modernizing to the traditional ruleset of dungeons and dragons. They did a great job with this in certain aspects of the game, like the updated spellcasting rules. However, my biggest complaint by far about 5e is how they made almost no updates to the traditional attribute system d&D has always used, which frankly has a lot of problems.

Pillars of Eternity is a great example of how the 6-score system of D&D could have been easily updated into something more coherent, sensible, modern, and balanced. Not only do the 6 attributes in PoE make more conceptual/thematic sense, but they are also designed with the mantra of being useful independent of class. There's no such thing as a dump stat. Some stats may be more useful for some builds than other stats, but it comes much closer to being class-independent than D&D, which I vastly prefer because it makes character concepting and building much more engaging, with the potential for much more diversity, and opens up interesting role-play options.

You WANT each character to have a dump stat, otherwise either
1) you're not running a class-based system
or
2) classes get too similar

Nothing prevents YOU from simply switching out Str, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, Cha of D&D for the Mig, Con, Dex, Per, Int, Res of Pillars. But note that Obsidian couldn't use D&D terms (unless they bought a license).

I think you overestimate 1) what problems D&D have and 2) the ability to solve these problems merely by attribute changes.

The fact is: countless people have reacted the way you do, and fiddled about with changes. Most of the time, the only result is a long-forgotten fantasy heartbreaker. Just sayin'....

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm a bit dismayed that the number of encounters per day seems to be so important for class balance. To me that number is highly variable between groups and scenarios, and shouldn't have been used for balancing.

It make more sense if you keep in mind that mechanical class balance wasn't exactly a major goal for 5e. Mearls did mention that there would be "crystal clear" guidance as to encounters/day to get daily & at-will (1-hr short rests weren't a thing yet, IIRC) to theoretically balance in one L&L. But, I think it is fairly academic guidance. It's there if you want to work out balance from a mechanical standpoint. What 5e, its class designs, and emphasis on DM Empowerment really lends itself to is 'spot light' balance. The fighter is best at fighting, he shines in encounters where conventional weapon-using combat is the best solution. The Wizard is best at casting, he shines when spells are the answer. The Cleric is the best healer/'leader'/support character, he shines when things aren't going the party's way. The Rogue is the best skill character, he shines when the skills he has Expertise in come up. Etc. It's up to the DM to manage that spotlight, keep it moving, and keep the game enjoyable, varying the number of encounters may be part of that, 6-8, a baseline to start with to understand how shorter or longer days/more or fewer rests of each type, might give one PC or another his moment in the spotlight.

 

[RCanine]

First, you can't agree with him that there is a default and say that there is no default. Second, your second sentence is a false statement. 3d6 is not given as a method to avoid or not to use. It is given as a method that is not the best at achieving 1e stat goals, so better alternatives were given.

BRB, editting The Wikipedia article on Bikeshedding to mention this thread as an example.

 

[Ancalagon]

BRB, editting The Wikipedia article on Bikeshedding to mention this thread as an example.

That law explains so many things at work...

 

[SteveC]

For me, what 5E got wrong was doing away with the modules concept. The core 5E ... isn't something that I like very much (which shouldn't surprise anyone, it's in my signature). I've played it because it's D&D and that's what a lot of my group want to do.

What would have worked for me is to have the options to make it the kind of game I like baked in as modules. The way the designers talked about it during the launch.

 

[MechaPilot]

aaaaaannyway, to get back on the things that 5e didn't do well: I'm a bit dismayed that the number of encounters per day seems to be so important for class balance. To me that number is highly variable between groups and scenarios, and shouldn't have been used for balancing.

Strictly speaking, it's not encounters per day. Abilities don't usually refresh simply because a day passes. It's generally the act of taking a long rest that does this. Additionally, the DMG does give rules for varying rest times.