D&D 5E Magic Item Math of 5e

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Well, yeah, obviously items that don't affect the math don't affect the math. I thought that went without saying.

Well, it kind of can't go without saying since "you'll probably end up with 5 permanent magic items by 20th level" doesn't actually include any kind of estimation how many of them will be math-affecting and how many will be non-math-affecting, especially because a significant piece of the guideline for providing items is for the DM to not blindly adhere to whatever dice rolls indicate, but actually assess "Does this fit for the campaign I envision?" and intervene if the answer is "Not as well as I'd like."

 

[Maxperson]

True. Even items with a +3 bonus have less impact than Adv/Dis. And most other items tend to expand a PC's abilities in a lateral manner, rather than upward.

Not when those items are armor and a shield. Advantage doesn't matter if you just plain can't hit. +X to hit is less relevant, but it still makes a significant difference. You will often not have advantage, and advantage plus +X to hit is much better than advantage and no +X to hit.

 

[S'mon]

Magic items are gravy, not required from what was told to
us by the game designers. You can get 0 magic items and the game won't be too tough and the second option is not true.

I've found that giving out even quite powerful items (eg +3 to AC) makes no noticeable
impact on play. I certainly don't need to rebalance my encounters to take account of the items I've given out. I can imagine that handing out +3 plate & +3 shield would make a noticeable difference compared to no magic items, but +1 and the occasional +2 item doesn't, and magic weapon pluses
certainly don't.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm incredibly cautious about awarding defense items.

Offense is much less of a problem - there are always more goblins and dragons than the party can handle.

But stratospheric AC? Not a good idea.

I suggest to everyone to hold off the plus AC items until at least third tier.

At double-digit levels, it feels more okay if ordinary foes like thugs and Orcs can't actually hit you except on a 20.

 

[MwaO]

Sometimes you get a half-dozen driftglobes.

bag of holding, amulet of proof against detection and location, boots of speed, cap of water breathing, and a decanter of endless water

If you reread the first post, you should note that items that are either duds or from tables A-D are taken into account already. The average PC finds 6 permanent items over the course of 20 levels, 1 of which is either from tables A-D, not particularly effective, or cursed in a permanent way. The other 5 permanent items shift the math in some significant way.

And I wouldn't underestimate how Boots of Speed change encounters - its presence means that a typical party can focus fire any opponent in the first round, regardless of where it is in the room. Unless the room is very big.

 

[Ancalagon]

I guess it's all about "what are those 5 items"? If a level 20 fighter has a vorpal long sword, a +2 shield, armor of invulnerability, belt of fire giant strength and Daern's instant fortress... then heck yes the items are going to have an enormous impact on the character and his/her performance!!!

This kind of thinking assumes, for whatever reason, that the 5 items will all be "worthy" of a level 20 character, when in reality the "collection of 5 items" were accumulated over a long adventuring career, and some of these won't be so potent.

If the level 20th fighter is now sporting a flame tongue, a +1 shield, a ring of spell turning, a cape of the mountebank and a bag of tricks... he's not going to break the game, yet his/her items clearly enhance the character and allow it to do fun things.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If you reread the first post, you should note that items that are either duds or from tables A-D are taken into account already. The average PC finds 6 permanent items over the course of 20 levels, 1 of which is either from tables A-D, not particularly effective, or cursed in a permanent way. The other 5 permanent items shift the math in some significant way.

And I wouldn't underestimate how Boots of Speed change encounters - its presence means that a typical party can focus fire any opponent in the first round, regardless of where it is in the room. Unless the room is very big.

You're still missing the big point here which is that any individual PC isn't going to be "average." There's a TON of variance. I mean, in my DL campaign, which is pretty high-magic-item, there's a swashbuckler with a flametongue and a ranger with an oathbow and two fighters with dragon-slaying weapons and a sorcerer with staves and then me....I've got bracers of defense, an accurate dagger and a wand of wonder. These things up my power a bit, but it's not like I'm wiping the floor with encounters that I'd be struggling with without them.

...and if that swashbuckler with a flametounge fell off a cliff and couldn't have their body recovered, our party's damage output would be reduced, but it's not like the game would be any harder, really.

The math for "average" doesn't produce a specific reliable outcome. 5e's comfortable at either end of the bell curve or somewhere in the middle - its balance does not rely on magic items to "work."

 

[Ancalagon]

OR, neither one is a problem because the game isn't balanced on the head of a pin, it's balanced with a broad field of acceptable results that break nothing.

If this is true (still haven't played... and not for many months sigh...) this is excellent news. Robustness is good.

Getting an item that is perfectly suited to your character is RARE.

Exactly! It should happen once or twice in a campaign.

 

[MwaO]

which is pretty high-magic-item, there's a swashbuckler with a flametongue and a ranger with an oathbow and two fighters with dragon-slaying weapons and a sorcerer with staves and then me....I've got bracers of defense, an accurate dagger and a wand of wonder. These things up my power a bit, but it's not like I'm wiping the floor with encounters that I'd be struggling with without them.

Multiple dragon-slaying weapons in a party in a DL game? And your Sorcerer has plural magic staves? Or an Oathbow in a game with flying Solo Dragons?

Not sure what your PC is or what level you are, but if you think you wouldn't be struggling against the encounters you're playing against without your magic items over the course of a day, there's something really wrong there.

 

[MwaO]

If this is true (still haven't played... and not for many months sigh...) this is excellent news. Robustness is good.

Exactly! It should happen once or twice in a campaign.

And it happens more often than that, if you roll randomly, simply because there are a lot of items out there that change the math and are perfect for a wide variety of characters. Even if they're not the item you happen to want.