Unearthed Arcana What does Unearthed Arcana need?

[Greg K]

Race: Gnoll
Class: OA Shaman
Class: Shaman
Class: Witch

Barbarian Variant: Civilized Barbarian (Back-alley Brawlers, a certain Musketeer, some nobles)

Cleric Variant: Cloistered (based off 3e UA Cloistered Cleric
Cleric Variant: Remove armor and weapon proficiencies from domains. At first level, make an additional choice: Priest (non-martial), Templar (martial)
Cleric: more domains (and, I would love something official along the the lines of the 2e Complete Priest's Handbook)
Cleric: Tailored spell lists by domains (similar to 2e spheres)

Druid variant or subclass: Celtic based

Fighter Variant: Light Fighter with various subclasses (similar to what Khaalis posted on this site)
Fighter subclass: along the lines of DavidJester's Commander

Monk variant: Drops the traditional D&D monk abilities and Destroyer novels influence. Give something more customizable so that one can recreate real world martial arts styles and those found in70'a Kung Fu Theater movies. I'd be looking at GURPS Martial Arts, Ultimate Martial Arts for Champions, Blood and Fists (RPGObjects) for d20 Modern, and both Ninja's and Superspies and Mythic China by Palladium (I would not use the actual Palladium style write-ups, because many just use the name of real world styles and are not meant to replicate them in game terms). I also like the Martial Arts Companion for Rolemaster Standard System with its Nature Powered Monk, Psionic Monk, and a Divine Powered Monk (which was released later by the authors since it was not ready for inclusion).

Sorcerer Bloodline: Arcane Blood. Magic in the veins. No strange ancestors. No sprouting wings. No transformations.
Sorcerer Bloodline: Fey Blood

variant: Skill Points. I was surprised this was not in the DMG

 

[doctorbadwolf]

[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION] don't have [MENTION=6689464]MoonSong[/MENTION] 's noble to hand, so I can't say. Like all Star Wars saga edition classes, it's pretty versatile, but it manages what the warlord does, what a scholar would do, and adds a bit of non magical bard in for good measure. In a direct port, I would probably call it the Captain. It doesn't do the "almost a fighter" thing the warlord does, though. Mostly bc that is what multiclassing is for in saga.

A class with a few subclasses could easily do it full justice, but then it's that are truly missing in 5e could be done with a couple subclasses for various classes.


Also, I still disagree with the idea of a subclass that replaces magic. IMO, it's much better done as a variant option that is separate from any other choice point, for most cases.

 

[CapnZapp]

IMHO, the real question isn't what class 'needs' more sub-classes or which has 'too many' nor that number-of-sub-classes = 'love' for the class or anything. It's more a matter of:

Yes. Merely filling out percieved gaps in subclasses is incredibly unimaginative.

A trio of new subclasses once in a while is certainly not bad, but I certainly hope new subclasses will be presented less often than once a month (given the new accelerated UA schedule)

What are character options that players would still have to go back to past editions to get?

• (1e) Multi-Classing from 1st level on
• (1e) Psionics 'wild talents'
• (2e) Psionics (class)
• (2e) Custom priesthoods
• (3e) Fighter, Fighter/X 'builds' focusing on something other than DPR, particularly, IMHO, 'battlefield control' builds.
• (3e) Custom 'thematic' Sorcerer builds.
• (3e) PrCs
• (4e) Warlord / 'Complex' fighter
• (4e) Themes
• (Essentials) Knight ('Aggro' fighter)
• (Essentials) Hunter (Martial 'controller')

I see no pressing need for more multiclassing rules. I think you mean "multiclassed first level characters" as in a 1st level character that's half fighter, half rogue; but really, the notion that you're a full adventurer at level three fixes all that. Just consider your level 2 Ftr1/Rog1 character to still be an apprentice and you're done.

Wild talents: should be possible on par with Magic Initiate. That is, way less powerful.

Psionics: obvs

Custom Priesthoods: Not sure they're ever going back to that idea. Choosing one god over another because the first one gives you a better weapon or spell sucks. Domains offer a bit of customization without having to deal with that, and way more customization in 5E than 3E after all (since they're full subclasses).

Fighters: Not sure 5E will ever go down the WoW path of separating "tank" and "dps". Pretty sure "aggro management" won't be explored further than the odd battlemaster "attack me or get disadvantage once" thing.

Thematic Sorcerers: I still have hope. I want metamagic free sorcerers but there I am not holding my breath.

Prestige Classes: I'm really wary against this. I just think the risks of imbalance makes it not worth it. Are there really any prestige class concepts that can't be implemented through a subclass (with feat support)? If anything, I could see WotC experimenting with discupling class from subclass. (Within reason of course) If there was a way to pick Battlemaster for a Rogue or Paladin, for instance; or - I don't know, War Domain for a Druid... you would get a long way. Do we really need the concept of prestige classes in 5E?

Warlord/Complex Fighter: Not sure I'd bunch these two together. So I won't.

Warlord: I'm certainly not on the Warlord barricades, but I don't see why it would break the game to have a Fighter who can hand out his attacks to others pretty much at will.

Complex Fighter: Not sure I see the point here. I mean, I understand some people want it, but I'm not sure it can or should be done (other than the "support fighter") within the paradigm of 5E. There are simply a lot of beefs to be fixed first - why is it that 4E can give out a Misty Step at second (?) level while the same ability is considered a level 15 (-ish; don't remember) in 5E?

The rest is 4E builds I'm not familiar with. Only played 4E up until PHB2 or thereabouts. Never tried Essentials.

What are campaign styles/tools that DMs would still have to reach back to past editions to find good support for?

• (1e) Construction & Seige
• (1e) 'High magic' campaigns
• (1e) Dragonlance
• (2e) Spelljammer
• (2e) & lots of other settings...
• (3e) Commoditized magic
• (3e) Epic level play
• (3e) Eberron
• (3e) NPC Classes
• (4e) All-martial parties / no-magic campaigns.
• (4e) balance (j/k!)
• (Essentials) Skill Challenges

...those're by no means exhaustive....

Construction & Siege: I definitely hope this becomes a book of its own, since I am generally not interested in downtime activities.

High magic: please elaborate for us unfamiliar with what 1E considers high magic

Settings: If WotC gets a willing licensee, then maybe. Their current strategy is to maximize the customer base for every product, and supporting any setting besides the Realms is simply not in that strategy.

Commoditized magic: do you mean Eberron take?

Epic level play: let me just say they need a high level play book (PC levels 15-20; CR levels 15-30) book first...

NPC classes: did you see Volo contains more of these?
The way NPCs get to call themselves Scouts or Kraken Priest without actually forcing me as a DM to create a Ranger or high-level Cleric is not merely great. It's a fundamental reason I'm even playing the game!

I just wish they took a leaf of that guy who made one-stop stat blocks. That is, if a monster has a spell, that spell is reproduced as a monster ability right there on the page. (Sorry can't remember the thread or the OP) An NPC like Archmage is way less useful unless you know all his spells by heart. And I don't.

 

[CapnZapp]

Tony,

on the Barb--I don't think we have; what seems to always happen is, they always seem to ratchet the barbarian even more savage. But I don't want to have to multiclass into fighter (especially in this edition) in order to develop my character as someone who, while still tapping into the rages of his savage past, learns to fight.

The ship might have sailed on that one.

Fighter and Barbarian multiclass builds have great synergy.

Not sure what you could accomplish from a non-savage non-magic Barbarian that you can't accomplish with a few or many Fighter levels.

A non-magical Barbarian? A Champion with three levels of Berserk Barbarian.

A non-savage Barbarian? A Totem Barbarian with three levels of Battlemaster.

Not trying to shut you down. Trying to explain this might be a "not seeing the wood for all the trees" kind of deal you're having...

Even if they create your dream subclass, not sure I'd take it over the super juicy Action Surge and Second Wind I get with MCing... I guess I think we should embrace the way Fighter classes works so very great with almost all martial classes as a positive for this edition.

on the wizard--this is actually the only class I'm okay without a generalist on; because the wizard doesn't lose anything. He just gets a little better in his chosen area. In the past we needed a generalist because specializing cut off entire categories of spells. Now you have infinite flexibility-and the benefits of a specialization.

Agreed on the nonspec wiz: people scream for it w/o realizing there is no need for it. And I certainly think a wiz subclass that trades away all the school features for simply more spells and slots would be a mistake. That's the sorcerer all over again "if you don't want a theme you get more power".

Having ALL wizards have a theme is brilliant. Don't listen to those saying "I want to be a generalist", unless you make that a theme by itself. (It would make for a great case for a metamagic wizard )

 

[Salamandyr]

The ship might have sailed on that one.

Fighter and Barbarian multiclass builds have great synergy.

Not sure what you could accomplish from a non-savage non-magic Barbarian that you can't accomplish with a few or many Fighter levels.

A non-magical Barbarian? A Champion with three levels of Berserk Barbarian.

A non-savage Barbarian? A Totem Barbarian with three levels of Battlemaster.

Not trying to shut you down. Trying to explain this might be a "not seeing the wood for all the trees" kind of deal you're having...

Even if they create your dream subclass, not sure I'd take it over the super juicy Action Surge and Second Wind I get with MCing... I guess I think we should embrace the way Fighter classes works so very great with almost all martial classes as a positive for this edition.



Agreed on the nonspec wiz: people scream for it w/o realizing there is no need for it. And I certainly think a wiz subclass that trades away all the school features for simply more spells and slots would be a mistake. That's the sorcerer all over again "if you don't want a theme you get more power".

Having ALL wizards have a theme is brilliant. Don't listen to those saying "I want to be a generalist", unless you make that a theme by itself. (It would make for a great case for a metamagic wizard )

The Barb and the Fighter don't synergize well together. In both cases, multiclassing puts you behind the curve power-wise, especially at the most crucial middle levels. There's no more reason to say "You can just multiclass" for this archetype than there is for "take some cleric levels" for Zealot.

And if you had the option and chose to play a multiclass? That's cool. One of the really nice things about 5e is there are multiple things (Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Multiclass fighter/wizard for instance) to make the same thing. Options are good.

 

[CapnZapp]

The Barb and the Fighter don't synergize well together.

Huh?

As a Barbarian, once you've gotten to level 5, you're welcome to pick as many fighter levels you want before continuing.

Action Surge and Second Wind are very juicy targets for any character, not least a Barbarian. So that's two. Then you get superiority dice at 3rd... and a feat at 4th. Yummy!

All in all, I'd say few classes synergize as well than these two! So I'm honestly at a loss trying to come up with what you would ask of a class pairing to deem it good synergy...

 

[CapnZapp]

I should add that no martial character should probably multiclass before picking up Extra Attack at L5.

That's just a given.

I realized you might be talking about "classic" multiclassing where you pick one level of each class at a time: Fighter 1, Fighter/Barbarian 1/1, Fighter/Barbarian 2/1 and so on.

But that multiclassing style is never good. In fact, it's so worthless that I'm not even considering it when I evaluate good synergy.

You can do stuff like Cleric/Wizard 1/1, but that's because you're doing a "start dip" of Cleric 1. Your intentions here is likely Cleric/Wizard 1/19.

 

[CapnZapp]

And if you had the option and chose to play a multiclass? That's cool. One of the really nice things about 5e is there are multiple things (Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Multiclass fighter/wizard for instance) to make the same thing. Options are good.

This is true, however.

The focus on MC perhaps became a tad to intense. Sure I realize not all campaigns turn on multiclassing.

But what I meant was that I see a difference between Fighter/Wizard and "society Barbarian".

One thing really needs subclass support: an Endritch Knight and a Bladesinger are both superior to the mediocre Fighter/Wizard multiclass. The mc-combo gets the worst of both worlds: neither 4 attacks nor level 9 spells at high level. Note how Eldritch Knight makes you a spellcaster without giving up the 4 attacks. And how Bladesinger makes you survive better in martial combat without giving up the 9 spell levels!

But in the other case I honestly see Barbarian/Fighter not as some subpar "last resort" solution, but as a very natural, very competitive, very clean solution.

 

[The Old Crow]

I'd like to see a human variant that doesn't rely on feats.

 

[MoonSong]

@Tony Vargas don't have @MoonSong 's noble to hand, so I can't say. Like all Star Wars saga edition classes, it's pretty versatile, but it manages what the warlord does, what a scholar would do, and adds a bit of non magical bard in for good measure. In a direct port, I would probably call it the Captain. It doesn't do the "almost a fighter" thing the warlord does, though. Mostly bc that is what multiclassing is for in saga.

A class with a few subclasses could easily do it full justice, but then it's that are truly missing in 5e could be done with a couple subclasses for various classes.

The class is in the downloads section sans 1 subclass
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1359