Ha! There isn't a single sorcerer player who wouldn't trade 3 Quickens for 3 Action Surges!
D&D 5E Selecting the Simplest Sorcerer Solution
- Thread starter Sword of Spirit
- Start date
Ha! There isn't a single sorcerer player who wouldn't trade 3 Quickens for 3 Action Surges!
Chaosmancer
Legend
With the assumption of 2 short rests they get 3 action surges, 3 second winds, and the battlemaster gets 12 superiority dice.
Sorcerer still only gets 3 quickens, which is big spell followed by cantrip.
And that is if they use all their stuff before the short rest. Because the Battlemaster's Action surge, Second Wind and 4 dice refresh on the short rest, but the sorcerer does not.
So no short rests sorcerer looks better, multiple short rests battle master clearly has their stuff more often
That is correct but Action Surge is not competing with other Fighter abilities, Metamagic does. I've already stated that once before, and it's a core point of my argument. It shouldn't be omitted when discussing if the Sorcerer has enough points.
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Captain Panda
Explorer
For a pure sorcerer, have you considered using the spell point variant? Allow a 1:1 conversion between spell points and sorcery points and shut down multiclassing (would make things very complicated). I believe that would work out really well.
That's a very interesting idea! Were I to run another campaign that had a player who was really serious about wanting a sorcerer due to both the style of play and the metamagic... I might think about re-doing the sorcerer to do in fact what you mention here-- use the spell point variant. And then like you say, use those spell points for *both* casting and metamagic. So rather than two different pools of points, you just have one pool of "sorcery points" that allows you to cast spells with or without as much metamagic as you please.
Obviously I'd have to take a look at the points and probably up them a bit in number if I'm expecting the players to use them for both spells and metamagic. But if I coupled this with giving the sorcerer all eight metamagic options from the very beginning... that bonus might be able to offset the smaller SP amount so I wouldn't have to give them more. The only two things that then remain then are the the number of Spells Known, and the spell list of the sorcerer itself. I know for me... I like the idea of curated spell lists for the different types of sorcerers (just like I like the idea of curated spell lists for the different Wizard Schools althought I havdn't bothered looking into that either), but can understand why they weren't made that way originally. Way too complicated. But to do a personal Sorcerer revamp, I think I probably *would* make personalized spell lists for the different sorcerous origins, if I did that I probably wouldn't up the Spells Known, I'd swap the class over to Spell Points, give the sorcerer all eight metamagics from the beginning at 3rd level, then let them use their spell point pool to fuel both their spells and the metamagic.
Doing that would certainly change the feel of the sorcerer I think, and might make it more intriguing and different.
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How's multiclassing complicated? Just start with the regular spell slots; by making the conversion 1:1 you've already implemented it, whilst minimising the multiclass confusion. The only difference between the systems is that at the start of the day the player technically has to convert their spell slots to Sorcery points.
Captain Panda
Explorer
The difficulty would not be converting spell slots to points, that calculation is extremely simple. The complications that come in are balance concerns. A pure sorcerer is fairly underpowered in comparison to a wizard, but when multiclassed his primary weakness is ameliorated. Further, if a level in sorcerer gets you spell points in lieu of slots, most casting classes would probably want to get a level of sorcerer to utilize that system even if they aren't interested in actually being sorcerers. Spell points offer more power and versatility than spell slots, simply put.
Also, I believe you misunderstood my idea, Defcon. I wasn't suggesting the pool of spell points replace both slots and sorcery points, but just spell slots. So they wouldn't end up resource starved. They'd have their sorcery points in addition to their spell points, and the two would be interchangeable.
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Full conversion to the spell point system for Sorcerors may actually exacerbate one of the current issues that people have with sorcerors in this thread though: lack of endurance.
If people are of the opinion that they should be able to throw out a meta-magic-powered spell slot every round in combat in addition to their utility casting out of combat, then allowing them to nova even faster by burning off high-level spells using points is going to leave them out of juice even sooner.
- Leading to even more complaints.
Where a less nova-capable class like wizard is expected to use low-end slots as well as cantrips regularly, a sorceror tuned to throw out metamagicked spells every round is either going to have a balance issue or an endurance issue in comparison.
If people are of the opinion that they should be able to throw out a meta-magic-powered spell slot every round in combat in addition to their utility casting out of combat, then allowing them to nova even faster by burning off high-level spells using points is going to leave them out of juice even sooner.
- Leading to even more complaints.
Where a less nova-capable class like wizard is expected to use low-end slots as well as cantrips regularly, a sorceror tuned to throw out metamagicked spells every round is either going to have a balance issue or an endurance issue in comparison.
Good news! If you think its so great, you can have both! Just have your sorcerer take two levels of fighter. Just think of your nova potential when you can Quicken *AND* Action Surge in the same round!!!Ha! There isn't a single sorcerer player who wouldn't trade 3 Quickens for 3 Action Surges!
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