D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

[Cap'n Kobold]

I don't like how D&D and its imitators have so closely bound said powers to what's essentially the spoony minstrel character in terms of fluff and mechanics.

Which fluff and mechanics?

 

[Alexemplar]

Which fluff and mechanics?

Fluff-wise, the fact that the 5e Bard page shows us a smirking elf with a lute/guitar. And the constant references to music, being an entertainer, and the approach that their knowledge comes mostly in the form of rumors and personally embellished tales. It does a very good job of contrasting the Bard as a genial, charming, sly spinner of yarns with other more knowledge based classes like the Wizard and Warlock. Even the class name Bard, despite its original origins is -in modern contexts- more commonly encountered as a synonym for a poet/minstrel/musician/entertainer.

Mechanics-wise despite the change of Bardic Song to Bardic Inspiration (which still describes it as singing/music), we still get Song of Rest, and a spell list that focuses on illusions, charms, trickery but not much in terms of knowledge/divination etc. And the automatic proficiency with musical instruments which are also your spellcasting focus. You have to make a very specific effort to not fall into the stereotypical musical trickster shtick. The Skald comes across as more of a subversion than anything.

And that's just 5e D&D. Not touching upon art/class abilities/options in other editions or in regards to the many D&D imitators I alluded to.

I would compare the D&D Bard class and description to those of classes like the Noble from Star Wars or the Sage/Keeper from Fantasycraft. They fill a similar role in the game to the D&D Bard and even have very similar mechanics, but their descriptions don't really bring to mind a more flamboyant wandering entertainer- even though they could very easily be used to make one and such characters are cited as examples.

 

[dco]

A bard silly? No
A wizard class with a musical instrument? Yes, the actual one could have been a subclass of the wizard.

 

[Capn Charlie]

A bard silly? No
A wizard class with a musical instrument? Yes, the actual one could have been a subclass of the wizard.

I would have made it a sorc archetype, personally. Maybe lore Bard in wizard and "power of song" in sorc. Maybe a rogue archetype as well for a scoundrely type. Then a barbarian Bard for the skald. Delete the class and let it live through it's archetypes, call it a day.

Sent from my MT2L03 using EN World mobile app

 

[TheCosmicKid]

In D&D that is usually the case especially in a random encounter.
So just imagine that in this picture a lion is mauling the dwarf cleric while the human decapitates a leopard with his greatsword while Orpheus plays his harp.

Orpheus plays his harp, and fixes the lion in his flashing gaze, and speaks in a voice like thunder. And at the sound of his words, the savage creature recoils from him in fear and physical pain. Blood springs from the lion's eyes, first in drops but then in rivers, as Orpheus continues to recite barbed words, cruel words, words to flay the body and the mind. At last, the beast lies dead and the poet stands victorious, never having lifted a weapon but armed with the most beautiful and terrible of all magic. As silence descends over the battlefield, the other warriors, blood-spattered and weary, look with awe upon what their youthful companion has wrought.

No, you're right, that's totally silly -- a ridiculous distraction from the serious business of murderhoboing for fun and profit.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Just want to throw in Luthien Tinuviel into the ring. She basically did everything Orpheus did (oh, and she succeeded), pleaded with and put to sleep the maybe mightiest god-like power in her world and also befriended a giant hound which became so loyal he helped her defeat Sauron. If you'd ask me of a picture of a really powerful, epic solo bard, Luthien is your woman.

Yeah, I definitely thought about her, but I had to leave her out because we were discussing instrumentalists specifically and Lúthien is a capella.

 

[merwins]

If your bard doesn't use a theremin, what's the point?

 

[gyor]

If you've ever lost yourself in the power of a song that touches you deeply you'd realize that the Bard is the class that makes the most sense by far. So no unless the Bard chooses to be silly, the Bard is not silly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yet he didn't do this while his equally well known and heroic companions were in the middle of a life and death combat with said Lord of the Death and they were hacking at each other wit swords, scythes and axes.

You can make everyone look heroic in a specially crafted scene where he is the only protagonist, but how would Orpheus look like in a generic random encounter with dire wolves while he viciously mocks them?

If his voice is laced with magic?

Are you kidding?

Very, very cool, is the answer. Doesn't matter if he says any actual words. He can scream/roar at them.

You even confronted a wild animal with sudden and extreme loud noises? It works quite a lot for completely non magical people. Now imagine you can lace magic into your voice so that it physically and psychically hurts the object of your scorn!

Any natural, non rapid, non starving, animal would, IMO, run away, faced with that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Orpheus plays his harp, and fixes the lion in his flashing gaze, and speaks in a voice like thunder. And at the sound of his words, the savage creature recoils from him in fear and physical pain. Blood springs from the lion's eyes, first in drops but then in rivers, as Orpheus continues to recite barbed words, cruel words, words to flay the body and the mind. At last, the beast lies dead and the poet stands victorious, never having lifted a weapon but armed with the most beautiful and terrible of all magic. As silence descends over the battlefield, the other warriors, blood-spattered and weary, look with awe upon what their youthful companion has wrought.

No, you're right, that's totally silly -- a ridiculous distraction from the serious business of murderhoboing for fun and profit.

Also this.

The whole point of characters like Orpheus is that beauty, especially the beauty of expertly crafted and sublimely inspired words and music, is powerful in and of itself, in a way and to a degree that transcends things like language, and even the bounds of the physical world.

The idea that such a thing is silly...causes me to imagine a very hollow, dreary, pointless world.