LordEntrails
Hero
Agreed, but the hope is to keep things simple. Another table could be created, or some other type of attribute/category used. But which? How to keep things simple and give a reasonable verisimilitude?
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D&D 5E Swimming in Armor
- Thread starter LordEntrails
- Start date
LordEntrails
Hero
I just went to check out the table to see if I could figure out something.
Padded already gives DIS to stealth, so it would give it to swim as well. So this case is already handled.
The only one I see a problem with might be breastplate, since it might be worn with a padded undercoat (though the description doesn't say so).
Oofta
Legend
All I'm saying is that I seem to disagree with some of the posts, I don't think there's a need for a penalty. I certainly disagree that the penalty should be based on what type of armor (or lack therein). I don't know what a fair penalty would be because to me it would be difficult to swim in clothes with even relatively minimal gear.
IMHO boots/robes/backpacks/weapons/staves/armor/swimming capability/carrying capacity should all contribute to the difficulty of swimming. While it may be fair for everyone but the monk to be at disadvantage to their athletics checks, I'm just not sure it adds anything to the game.
Disagree with me? That's OK.
Bloodstone Press
Explorer
I've read the whole thread, and there are a few things that ring true to me.
*Penalizing only armor wearing characters is wrong.
*Using encumbrance still doesn't cover the issue of buoyancy - see the character who is encumbered by carrying a 200 pound raft...
An easy way to address these concerns may be to just leave it up to the DM to make a judgement call on each character's "buoyancy" if they fall into the water. I think the spirit of 5e is not to go so far as to make a detailed table or assign swim penalties to armor or anything. And even the encumbrance rules are optional, so not everyone will be using them in their games. So, perhaps you should just write a few sentences guiding the DM on how to adjudicate the situation, pointing out a few things to take into consideration.
Perhaps a short list of examples of degrees of buoyancy would be appropriate to help guide their judgement. Something like:
No check for unhindered, unencumbered, rested characters that are carrying a small amount of gear.
A check may be required for characters who are wearing armor, carrying an average amount of gear, are in some way hindered, or are encumbered
A check with disadvantage may be required if they are carrying an excessive amount of gear, are partially restrained, are heavily encumbered, are suffering from at least 1 level of exhaustion, etc.
If they are carrying something that is particularly buoyant, they may have advantage on the roll. Or not have to roll at all.
*Penalizing only armor wearing characters is wrong.
*Using encumbrance still doesn't cover the issue of buoyancy - see the character who is encumbered by carrying a 200 pound raft...
An easy way to address these concerns may be to just leave it up to the DM to make a judgement call on each character's "buoyancy" if they fall into the water. I think the spirit of 5e is not to go so far as to make a detailed table or assign swim penalties to armor or anything. And even the encumbrance rules are optional, so not everyone will be using them in their games. So, perhaps you should just write a few sentences guiding the DM on how to adjudicate the situation, pointing out a few things to take into consideration.
Perhaps a short list of examples of degrees of buoyancy would be appropriate to help guide their judgement. Something like:
No check for unhindered, unencumbered, rested characters that are carrying a small amount of gear.
A check may be required for characters who are wearing armor, carrying an average amount of gear, are in some way hindered, or are encumbered
A check with disadvantage may be required if they are carrying an excessive amount of gear, are partially restrained, are heavily encumbered, are suffering from at least 1 level of exhaustion, etc.
If they are carrying something that is particularly buoyant, they may have advantage on the roll. Or not have to roll at all.
Eltab
Lord of the Hidden Layer
Rise of Tiamat, page 26 - part of the voyage towards Arauthator's lair - but hidden in another encounter description:
I was inspired by the Merrow description; they try to tip the boat over.
Scrags try to rip a plank off the bottom of the boat and cause a leak.
I don't agree with that rule.
I think I wasn't expressing the point I attempted to make in the other post well enough so I'll restate it here.
--
Stealth is a really subtle skill. It means not making a little noise that alerts an active listener.
Swimming requires strong, gross body movement.
Does disadvantage to Stealth translate to disadvantage checks for climbing? Running? Acrobatics? No. If it doesn't, then it shouldn't reply to Swimming either. Once you look at the relative weights of different armors, it also applies so unevenly that it makes less sense to me - padded armor should not be worse than chain mail or a steel breast plate.
Although seemingly elegant, using armor's Stealth disadvantage to translate to Swimming disadvantage is way too punishing.
I'm not sure of how to rule on this yet, but I'm letting it sit for a while and talking it over with my co-DMs.
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transtemporal
Explorer
In my campaign:
Heavy armor/heavy encumbrance = you have -20ft speed, you can't stay afloat but you can walk on the bottom or climb walls
Medium armor/encumbered = you have -10ft speed, you can swim with disadvantage
Light armor/no encumbrance = you can swim normally
Heavy armor/heavy encumbrance = you have -20ft speed, you can't stay afloat but you can walk on the bottom or climb walls
Medium armor/encumbered = you have -10ft speed, you can swim with disadvantage
Light armor/no encumbrance = you can swim normally
Li Shenron
Legend
There's an excellent free supplements that covers this full, it's called "Water and Whirlpools". I believe it's the successor of an older supplement called "Fire and Brimstone".
werecorpse
Adventurer
If you want to go with realism then the weight of even medium armour means you sink pretty quickly, and yes wearing robes has a similar if slightly slower effect. If you don't care about realism then make up whatever rules suit the visual you want.
The 5e rules that I'm aware of largely ignore the dangers of water.
-One can hold ones breath for a ridiculously long time.
-swimming is pretty easy; &
-with water breathing being a ritual spell than lasts 8 hours any party of adventurers with a wizard 5th level+ should have it up permanently making water hazards trivial.
The 5e rules that I'm aware of largely ignore the dangers of water.
-One can hold ones breath for a ridiculously long time.
-swimming is pretty easy; &
-with water breathing being a ritual spell than lasts 8 hours any party of adventurers with a wizard 5th level+ should have it up permanently making water hazards trivial.
CapnZapp
Legend
I agree swimming in heavy armor is all but impossible.Heavy armor = glub, glub, glub. YMMV.
I disagree this means automatic failure. After all, this is D&D.
The proper way of expressing "you can't do that" is to set a high Swim DC (20 or even 25) and watch the plate fighter swim just fine.
Besides, this still is D&D. Even the fighter that skips the swim attempt can simply walk across the river (on the bottom).
Remember, this is D&D. You can hold your breath for very long durations with no significant consequences, even while you're heavily exerting yourself. A 18 Con Fighter can hold his breath for 44 rounds.
Assuming one foot of movement costs 4 ft (which pretty much strains the upper limit on slow effects) this is enough to cross a 600 ft wide river.
And that doesn't even take trivial measures into account, such as bringing along a small water-proof bag with you. Half way across the river, you stop to breathe for a single round. By RAW, that is enough to completely reset the suffocation counter.
You can easily walk across the bottom of a mile wide river this way, all within the bounds of the rules as written.
Of course, a DM can simply say "you drown" or rein in this approach to some degree, but let's at least acknowledge that applying common sense and real-life physics doesn't make much sense in a game like D&D.
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