D&D 5E Killing is Wrong: Adding Theme to a Campaign

[Tony Vargas]

D&D grew out of a wargame, yeah, it's about killing stuff, or, at least, winning battles. The /very/ first version of D&D, itself, gave a lot of exp for killing monsters, that was changed quite early on, in Greyhawk (the 0D&D booklet, not the setting).
In 1e, yeah, you /could/ get a lot more exp for treasure than for killing monsters, depending on the treasure types of the monsters and how the DM ran things, but you got less exp for magical treasure relative to it's putative value. (My personal recollection is that exp-for-gold was one of the many things that consistently drew a lot of criticism. In contrast, for instance, RuneQuest characters didn't gain exp and levels, they improves specific skills by actually using them.)
In 2e, exp for treasure was optional.
In 3.0, it was gone.
It hasn't come back, AFAIK.

Morale checks, OTOH, were very much a part of the wargame heritage - winning a battle rarely means killing /everyone/ on the other side!

Getting experience for killing enemies was standard in 1e. I recall DMs having variations on that - I know I did (1/2 exp for avoiding a monster, 1/4 for repeating it, the balance for killing it, if you ever got around to it). 2e and 3e had suggestions for rewarding exp for dealing with potential enemies in other ways, and for awards for other objectives, including 'story awards' for accomplishing objectives. In 4e, you could earn the same experience for completing a Skill Challenge as fighting an Encounter, and could gain the same exp for defeating, bypassing, or otherwise coping with an enemy rather than killing it. 5e is back to the 2e/3e model, AFAIK.

Anyway, I don't see the picture of rising dedication to violence that blogger does. I think he's just polishing his rose colored glasses.

 

[hastur_nz]

I dunno what you guys are on, but in my games Cities are pretty much always pretty civilised, even the LE ones don't have PC's or NPC's just going around killing people because they exist, in fact violence in general isn't something you do in public view. I guess it starts with the DM, and ends with the Players, i.e. be sure to show the players that they are in Civilisation, which is full of humanoids not monsters and has expectations and (where necessary) laws, and if your players don't get the hints try more obvious hints and suggestions, leaving the 'big stick' for if and when the players deliberately break the law (i.e. after you've reminded them that their stated action is probably illegal).

Basically: Don't force the players into a fight, then complain that you get murder as an outcome.

For example, the PC's enter the city gates, where they are stopped, questioned, maybe searched, write their names etc in the journal, and any other stuff taken care if e.g. a city might even require weapons to be 'peace bonded'. They see town guards at the gates, on the streets, etc. Say they come across someone robbing a business - a good chance for them to intervene... do they make a 'citizen's arrest', if so how? They don't have to beat the assailant unconscious, they just have to apprehend the criminal, which may or may not involve weapons, grappling, a sleep spell, etc. Does someone (e.g. NPC) summon the guard? Does the guard see the PC's using violence, and then who do they arrest? Do the players really want to attack the town guard? A simple example, that I've personally used a few times now in some form.

Luckily my players are not idiots, and easily respect the norms of civilised society in play. Start simple, and after a while you can have your evil NPC interacting with the PC's, maybe even baiting them, working against them in the background, etc, and the players will seek some form of non-violent resolution, because that's the done thing.

Obviously, there will be times and places where the PC's can revert to their murderous instincts if they want, e.g. chasing monsters in the sewers, investigating the local theives guild in the abandoned warehouse, etc. But in public parts of your city, it's not hard to encourage civilised behaviour from your players, you just have to think about how you frame your background, NPC's, conflicts etc.

 

[dropbear8mybaby]

Sometimes these things are regional...

So all Australians are murderous psychopaths?

Luckily my players are not idiots, and easily respect the norms of civilised society in play. Start simple, and after a while you can have your evil NPC interacting with the PC's, maybe even baiting them, working against them in the background, etc, and the players will seek some form of non-violent resolution, because that's the done thing.

Obviously, there will be times and places where the PC's can revert to their murderous instincts if they want, e.g. chasing monsters in the sewers, investigating the local theives guild in the abandoned warehouse, etc. But in public parts of your city, it's not hard to encourage civilised behaviour from your players, you just have to think about how you frame your background, NPC's, conflicts etc.

So either my players are idiots or I'm incompetent.

Are you sure you're good at phrasings things in a non-combative manner? Because you're not doing a very good job of it here.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

So all Australians are murderous psychopaths?

Is the behaviour you describe your players indulging in common to all Australians?

Its certainly anomalous from what I know of gamers a elsewhere: you get some players acting in that fashion, but all players in a group acting out like that would be considered unusual I believe. With the possible exception of some school groups probably.

 

[Eltab]

The most straightforward change is '0 HP = knocked-out', not dead.

Of course, since you cannot cast a non-lethal Fireball, magic-users have special rules to protect citizens from their unique danger.
Then again, maybe the City Wizard has created a non-lethal version of a few favorite spells. His Fireballs don't set everything aflame, they just suck all the oxygen out of the room ... and you faint. For a small fee - and a few months' time - he can train you in his knowledge. (You still have to get a registered permit to cast spells inside city walls, though.)

Get a copy of 3e's City of Splendors: Waterdeep and point out the very-high-level NPCs who love their home, plus the very-high-CR "assistants" the City Watch can (and will) call on for assistance. Five-story-tall golem made of adamantium, yeah I'll just punch it's lights out!

Do give the PCs some options to murder-hobo-for-hire, once in a while:
Perhaps as the Thieves Guild's muscle and cannon fodder du jour - followed by a trip to jail and somebody paying their bail. Now you owe somebody a BIG favor, isn't that nice?
Perhaps via a specific contract with the Authorities: "Wanted: Dead or Alive, preferably Dead" says the poster.
Perhaps a high noble who is legally untouchable asks the PCs to do some dirty work for him, casually (and unrealistically) expecting his hirelings will enjoy the same privileges as he.

 

[Draegn]

My players know that everyone they fight has some kind of information. They can always turn prisoners over to the city guard. For the most part the city punishes criminals with forced labour.

 

[Krachek]

There is a small Honor System in a DM guide.
The impact is more on social and followers.
But a game with all honorable character would be a kind boring.
Honorless character should be able to make their game too.
I would like to DM with it one of these days.

"No killing" is not core assumption in DnD!
Players will need strong and frequent reminder.
And there is a lot of monster type in DnD. Dont kill the ooze, seem exaggerated.
Maybe restrict the no killing to Humanoid. And which race? Is killing an orc ok?
The Dm will have to make the morale standard clear.


Spell blaster would be a problems more than fighters. You cannot subdue with fireball.
Attack with an attack roll can always go for non lethal final blow.

 

[Oofta]

In my campaign I just ensure the laws are enforced, and that the players know it. After that, it's kind of up to them.

It varies by game and location. In some areas, getting into a lethal fight is part of the nightly entertainment and in others the PCs may be hauled into court for a Zone of Truth session. Most cities can deal with even fairly high level characters if they need to, and of course there's always the idea of simply banishing the PCs and anyone that works with them.

As far as wizardly fireballs, my players have learned that in my world buildings will ignite and fire/destructive spells have consequence. Fortunately there are usually options that aren't quite as "blow-em-up".

A lot of this depends on what kind of game you want. D&D does not have to abide by the Comic Code Authority version of morality in my campaigns. In many cases an otherwise good character can kill someone as long as the target is not an innocent. Especially in areas that have questionable or nonexistent laws, sometimes the heroes have to take the law into their own hands.

But go into a civilized/well patrolled city and start blowing things up left and right potentially killing innocent bystanders? Expect in-game repercussions.

 

[Yaarel]

Utilize the experience point system.

You only gain experience *IF* you defeat opponents nonlethally. If you kill them, you gain zero experience points from the effort.

In this way, experience points are more like hero karma.

Simple. And terribly effective at ensuring nonlethality.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

It's your story. Just be sure your players are on board with what they're getting into. Also be ready to deal with situations where they cut loose regardless of the consequences because they felt pushed into a corner. Give them a few warning consequences before lowering the boom.