[OT] What does "under Jacob's condition" mean?

[Frostmarrow]

I picked up a book recently that was published in Germany. They mentioned a possible sequel "sub conditione Jacobi." Now I can do the Latin, but it still doesn't make sense. Can anyone throw some light on what this expression means or where it came from? A search on Google didn't turn up much, except that it appears to be an expression used in Germany (most of the pages found were in German, with one in Swedish).

Thanks

On the Swedish site it says (I'm translating):

Our preparation of sermon shall be sub conditione Jacobi "under Jacob's condition". Jac 4:13-15 i.e. "If the Lord wills and we may live". We leave under prayer our preparations in the hands of God.

Vår förberedelse av predikan skall vara sub conditione Jacobi "under Jakobs förutsättning". Jak 4:13-15 d.v.s. "om Herren vill och vi får leva". Vi lämnar under bön våra förberedelser i Guds händer.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Them Creek

N.B., here, that "Creek" (singular and plural) should be capitalized, as it referenced the tribe of AmerIndians, and not minor tributaries...

None of the people I ever heard use it thought that's what it meant; they actually were referencing streams. Do you have a reference for this assertion?

 

[CrazyMage]

Ah, Frostmarrow, you have given me my answer! Tack så mycket.

 

[Zhure]

http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss.asp?Num=2899

creek vs Creek

 

[ColonelHardisson]

http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss.asp?Num=2899

creek vs Creek

That's interesting, but no offense intended to you, that isn't very concrete. Even if it is accurate, the original meaning was lost long ago, and the phrase has changed into meaning streams. Saying that "creek" should be capitalized is akin to correcting someone who says "butt naked" instead of the original "buck naked;" most wouldn't even understand what the original phrase was referencing, and instead would be referencing what they are familiar with. I know that the folk I know who use the phrase are directly referencing streams, often the ones that run near their houses. Again, no disrespect intended to you or the original poster. It's just a case of cultural/language drift.

 

[Desdichado]

I'm with the Colonel on this one. And where I come from, you wouldn't say creek anyway, you'd say crick.

On a tangential note, is AmerIndian a word still in use? The certainly seemed the most awkward of the many words used to describe them, and it seems to have never really caught on, as near as I can tell. I prefer the term native americans, although how native they truly are is a question I'll leave to the anthropologists.

 

[Vaxalon]

"Amerindian" "Native American" "First Nations"

It's one of those words that changes periodically.

"Negro" "Black" "Person of Color"

"Asian" ... well, okay, some of them don't change.

Anyways

What happens is that the people choose a new word for themselves, one that doesn't have the perceived negative connotations that the "old" term had.

The new term picks up the old connotation.

The people choose a new word.

 

[Zhure]

That's interesting, but no offense intended to you, that isn't very concrete.

None taken. How could I be offended when I hadn't espoused my stance on this issue?

Personally, I'm guessing the original term was "creek." It's a guess though, based on the pervasiveness of the phrase as opposed to the traditional areas of influence of the Cree. However, I'm not stuck on my belief and if someone offers some better etymological evidence, I'd like to read it.

I checked with Word-detective and a few other sources I trust and found nothing definitive.

Greg

 

[I'm A Banana]

If you want to know what being under my condition means, talk to the ladies...

IYKWIMAITYD

--Kamikaze Midget, AKA: "Jacob"

 

[Samaeljs]

Meaning, if God wills it. Used like the Islamic in'shallah, Deo Volente was a common saying in the Middle Ages. Came to be referred as sub conditione Jacobi in Latin. Connected to Deus Vult, common crusader battle cry. Deo Volente- if God wills it Deus Vult- God wills it