D&D 5E Do you miss attribute minimums/maximums?

[Coroc]

No, the strongest 10% of women are not about as strong as the weakest 10% of men. In real life there is a physical strength difference between the genders, but your statement vastly overinflates that difference to the point where you'd have an "average" man being stronger than the strongest of women if what you said were true, and that just isn't the case.

True i was posting this generalizing a bit to much, These are of course average numbers. If you take trained women who do weightlifting or some other sports as professionals, then the average man is not that strong. But if you take statistic distributions then my statement is still true, only very few women are top athlets.
Even an weak man belonging to the weakest 10% is still stronger than 90% of the women. That is a fact that i read in a study about violence against women, which makes violence against women even more unacceptable than it is since this fact shows that it is hard for many women to put up physical defense in such a damable crime. Since it is decades ago i read this i cannot cite a source anymore but you could Google a bit to find out some numbers which might be different already nowadays.

 

[Yaarel]

I know you all know this, but it is worth keeping in mind. The height of women and the height of men forms two bell curves.



The bell curves overlap. This means, there are many women who are taller than many men.

The bell curves include exceptional statistical outliers. For example, there are women who are taller than 8 feet. This means, it is less likely but still possible, that the tallest human who will ever be born happens to be female.

It is possible to talk about statistical ‘tendencies’ when comparing men and women, but one cannot *predetermine* the case of a specific individual.

What is true for height, is true for most male-female comparisons. Overlapping bell curves.

Here for D&D, it may be that males have a statistical tendency to be stronger. But, because of statistical outliers, it is possible that the strongest Human who will ever be born, happens to be female.

Because D&D player characters focus on exceptional individuals, it is illogical to *penalize* the Strength score of a specific female character.

 

[Coroc]

I know you all know this, but it is worth keeping in mind. The height of women and the height of men forms two bell curves.

View attachment 86148

The bell curves overlap. This means, there are many women who are taller than many men.

The bell curves include exceptional statistical outliers. For example, there are women who are taller than 8 feet. This means, it is less likely but still possible, that the tallest human who will ever be born happens to be female.

It is possible to talk about statistical ‘tendencies’ when comparing men and women, but one cannot *predetermine* the case of a specific individual.

What is true for height, is true for most male-female comparisons. Overlapping bell curves.

Here for D&D, it may be that males have a statistical tendency to be stronger. But, because of statistical outliers, it is possible that the strongest Human who will ever be born, happens to be female.

Because D&D player characters focus on exceptional individuals, it is illogical to *penalize* the Strength score of a specific female character.

Ah thanks for posting this, i would not use different stats for men and women of a race in my games as i stated in one of my postings above, my Point in this discussion was rather to differ statwise between humans and other races.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Sure. But I'm also only explaining how I view these things.

And hey! 20 Strength halflings fit in my view quite comfortably, while they clash with the way some others view it.

There is some merit in that, at least. Given how many wild inconsistencies there are throughout this edition, it becomes a matter of picking your battles if you want to salvage the game at all.

 

[Satyrn]

There is some merit in that, at least. Given how many wild inconsistencies there are throughout this edition, it becomes a matter of picking your battles if you want to salvage the game at all.

XP, despite that last bit: We salvage wrecks. I don't view 5e as a wreck.

 

[Igwilly]

Gender min/max? I don't particularly care, but in any event, they should be balanced - so that no gender is underpowered compared to another - but honestly, I don't actively *want* them; I would just not mind them. I'm fine without them.

About races (and many more restrictions): I am learning to play AD&D 2e, and races never felt so meaningful and alive to me.

Honestly I think I'm done with "Humans in funny suits" and "Everything goes". They're just fake promisses, anyway.

 

[Maxperson]

Do you miss the time when a 4 Intelligence character couldn't be an Elf, or when a female human couldn't have 18/00 strength? Would the re introduction of racial and gender minimums and maximums add anyting to 5E, or would it be pointless? Would it detract?

No, but I do miss racial penalties.

 

[Maxperson]

No, the strongest 10% of women are not about as strong as the weakest 10% of men. In real life there is a physical strength difference between the genders, but your statement vastly overinflates that difference to the point where you'd have an "average" man being stronger than the strongest of women if what you said were true, and that just isn't the case.

Yes, but at the upper end the difference in strength is very significant. The men's world record bench press is 1075 pounds. The women's world record bench press is 600. That's a more than 40% difference. I'm not advocating for gender limitations to come back(I don't care for that much reality in the game), but the strength difference between men and women is pretty significant.

 

[Lost Soul]

Symmetrically speaking, the hypothetical Half Orc would get +2 Intimidation and −2 Persuasion, while the Charisma score remains unadjusted.

I disagree. Half Orcs are not known to be charismatic and giving them advantage on intimidate rounds them out nicer than saying they could have a high charisma off the bat. Half-orcs are not sly and ingratiating like teiflings can be. They are barbaric and crude. They exhibit strength and tend to make others uncomfortable. Can a half-orc overcome this? Yep, but it should be a struggle.

 

[Lost Soul]

I know you all know this, but it is worth keeping in mind. The height of women and the height of men forms two bell curves.

View attachment 86148

The bell curves overlap. This means, there are many women who are taller than many men.

The bell curves include exceptional statistical outliers. For example, there are women who are taller than 8 feet. This means, it is less likely but still possible, that the tallest human who will ever be born happens to be female.

It is possible to talk about statistical ‘tendencies’ when comparing men and women, but one cannot *predetermine* the case of a specific individual.

What is true for height, is true for most male-female comparisons. Overlapping bell curves.

Here for D&D, it may be that males have a statistical tendency to be stronger. But, because of statistical outliers, it is possible that the strongest Human who will ever be born, happens to be female.

Because D&D player characters focus on exceptional individuals, it is illogical to *penalize* the Strength score of a specific female character.

Completely false assessment based upon flawed logic. If your bell curve held true then athletics would not be divided by gender. Only the best "athlete" would compete on teams and teams would be fairly evenly represented by the sexes. They are not anywhere near that at the professional levels.