D&D 5E Buffing the Champion Fighter

[Xeviat]

It feels fine. They're still behind the Battle Master in damage and combat utility, but having two better skills may help them do cool stuff.


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[droid6689]

An extra ASI already doesn't do too much more at that level. The Fighter is able to max Str/Dex and Con rather early. If it's a truly simple character, they won't be taking feats after.


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Depends on how simple you want it. You can run all ability score upgrades or even grab resilient for another saving throw. If you wanted to give him more options maybe inspiring leader, mobile, lucky, etc. It simply makes the class more unique but in a fairly straightforward way. Atm champion is the "simple fighter with higher crit range" which is nice bit not terribly unique, giving all fighting styles and an extra asi fit the flavor of the class ("Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows") while furthering to make the archetype more competitive and unique.

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[droid6689]

I changed my rules again. They now look like this:

Expertise
At 3rd level, choose two of your skill proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

Remarkable Athlete
In addition to the other benefits your speed increases by 5 feet.

Reliable Talent
By 15th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.


So at 3rd level the Champion is superior to the Battle Master in at least two skills. If he chooses Athletics (a good idea) he will be better at grapples and shoves. And shouldn't a Champion Fighter be better at those than a Bard or Rogue anyway?

I didn't limit the Expertise to physical skills because who am I to say what your Fighter should be good at?

The additional speed for Remarkable Athlete is because a "Remarkable Athlete" should be good at running AND jumping, right?

Anyway. What do people think? Sound good? Not enough? Too much?

Looks interesting. Personally I would definitely give Expertise but I would indeed tie it to Athletics and Acrobatics specifically. I don't think I would give reliable talent, that might be overkill.

I'm 50/50 on the speed boost, kinda fits. I like it because it does make the class more differentiated from the others but it might be more than necessary



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[Xeviat]

Depends on how simple you want it. You can run all ability score upgrades or even grab resilient for another saving throw. If you wanted to give him more options maybe inspiring leader, mobile, lucky, etc. It simply makes the class more unique but in a fairly straightforward way. Atm champion is the "simple fighter with higher crit range" which is nice bit not terribly unique, giving all fighting styles and an extra asi fit the flavor of the class ("Those who model themselves on this archetype combine rigorous training with physical excellence to deal devastating blows") while furthering to make the archetype more competitive and unique.

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Why haven't any of us suggested extra save proficiencies? That's classic for the Fighter; in older editions, fighters got killer saves. That would certainly be different from the other fighters.


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[Xeviat]

And give them an identity. They're champions. What are they champions of? The common people! Give them advantage on persuasion or intimidation checks with common folk, depending on their relation to them (scare the commoners of enemy lands, offer hope to those of your lands).


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[droid6689]

Why haven't any of us suggested extra save proficiencies? That's classic for the Fighter; in older editions, fighters got killer saves. That would certainly be different from the other fighters.


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It could work. Flavor wise it would probably be Dex.

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[Xeviat]

It could work. Flavor wise it would probably be Dex.

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I'd vote for Wis too. Stubborn. Hard headed. Confident.


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[Cap'n Kobold]

I'd adjust Remarkable Athlete to stack with proficiency, but I wouldn't grant Expertise. That doesn't strike me as in the Champion's remit.

At higher level I'd allow Remarkable Athlete effects to apply to saves as well as skill checks.

If granting proficiency in additional saves, I could see any of the saving throws (with the exception of maybe Intelligence) being possible choices.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why haven't any of us suggested extra save proficiencies? That's classic for the Fighter; in older editions, fighters got killer saves.

I thought I had, i rarely pass up an opportunity..

 

[guachi]

I'd adjust Remarkable Athlete to stack with proficiency, but I wouldn't grant Expertise. That doesn't strike me as in the Champion's remit.

At higher level I'd allow Remarkable Athlete effects to apply to saves as well as skill checks.

If granting proficiency in additional saves, I could see any of the saving throws (with the exception of maybe Intelligence) being possible choices.

I've liked the first idea to stack with skill proficiency for a long time. It never occurred to me to do that with saves at some point. I like it! Sure, it might be a bit too powerful, but I like it nonetheless.

If you are granting a proficiency in a save of the Champion's choice, I could see everything including Intelligence. Maybe he's just seen it all by that point. Though there are so few Intelligence saves maybe it doesn't actually matter.