D&D 5E The Barbarian Path of the Ancestral Guardian In Xanathar's Guide To Everything

[MechaTarrasque]

I guess I don't see barbarians (except the totem and maybe the storm one) as being very "nature" in 5e, neither the spiky dwarf or the guy the who only made it to 4th level because his player figured out he should that he should only use frenzy in big fights (and no, the single goblin the party ambushed is not a "big fight") scream "nature" to me, so I wonder about the "nature" part of "nature paladin" more than the paladin part.

 

[BookBarbarian]

I thought this subclass had nice flavor but the execution was pretty meh in UA. Will be interested to see how the final version looks.

As for nature paladins ... I thought that's what the Oath of the Ancients was?

I quite liked the second take on it. It had more ways of encouraging enemies to attack the Barbarian rather than other party members. I thought it was a cool "Sentinel" style Barbarian.

And I totially agree with you about OoA paladins.

I guess I don't see barbarians (except the totem and maybe the storm one) as being very "nature" in 5e, neither the spiky dwarf or the guy the who only made it to 4th level because his player figured out he should that he should only use frenzy in big fights (and no, the single goblin the party ambushed is not a "big fight") scream "nature" to me, so I wonder about the "nature" part of "nature paladin" more than the paladin part.

Yep. People still have a hang up where a 5e Barbarian is from a Tribal culture, but that's not necessarily true at all. The Outlanter background represents that kind of "Barbarian".

I can easily see an Ancestral Guardian Barbarian as a big city ghost hunter or exorcist. Or an Ichigo style Shinigami. There doesn't have to be any nature about it, and certainly no paladin about it unless they've done some Oath swearing.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I'm fine with how the Ancestral Guardian turned out the 2nd time.

Now I wonder if Ancestral Spirits get tired of being offered oranges all the time from family shrines... Perhaps that's why there's rage.

 

[guachi]

Yeah.

There's very little about Barbarian that says "nature" Paladin. Sure, they have totems but it's heavily fluff if you want it. Even if you use it, it's more "spiritual" than it is "nature".

If I wanted a "nature" Paladin I'd play either an Ancients Paladin or I'd play a Ranger.

If Mearls really thinks of Barbarian as "Paladin of the Wild" he failed miserably in conveying that in the rules.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I really wish they could've come up with some none-supernatural barbarian options this go-round. The original UA Barbarian was decidedly non-magical... to the point that they got xp from destroying magic items and bonuses to detecting illusions because of their distrust of the stuff.

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I probably am being one.

I both like the 5e Barbarian and have some sympathy for this point of view. I just don't think the original "anti-magic" Barbarian works terribly well in practice.

But maybe because that's because I still have less-than-fond memories from when I was 14, and the oldest member of our D&D group, of allowing Matt to play the original Dragon Magazine Barbarian. As soon as the other Matt's brand-new 1st level Magic-user cast a spell the first Matt's 3rd level Barbarian killed him, with the excuse "that's what a Barbarian would do".

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree with Mearls about the Ranger, it is not a nature's paladin at all. And it is not a half-fighter half-druid either. The roots of the Ranger are in Tolkien since the name itself, and it's got a lot to do with "ranging" i.e. reaching the farthest reaches of the world into the unknown. Being a survivalist and keen with nature is more like a necessity. I don't know where the "defender of the nature" came from but I think it came later, possibly from FR?

I do not feel the same way as his about Barbarians being nature's paladins either however. If they mostly represent the heroes of semi-civilized folks, they might still have more ties to nature than fully-civilized folks in the form of being more dependent on nature (and possibly even having a more nature-based religion), but they might also just be exploiters and plunderers pretty much the same way as city-dwellers.

Ancestral Guardian is a very cool concept by the way, but I do not see how this is more tied to nature than e.g. a Totem Warrior. Quite the opposite in fact, as soon as you're strongly tied to your own ancestors, you are putting your tribe and lineage pretty much above other people and creatures.

 

[BookBarbarian]

But maybe because that's because I still have less-than-fond memories from when I was 14, and the oldest member of our D&D group, of allowing Matt to play the original Dragon Magazine Barbarian. As soon as the other Matt's brand-new 1st level Magic-user cast a spell the first Matt's 3rd level Barbarian killed him, with the excuse "that's what a Barbarian would do".

I sympathize. Letting my players know that "That's what my character would do" is not an acceptable reason for ruining the table's fun is part of every Session 0 I have.

Or maybe you should just play with fewer Matts.

 

[gyor]

I agree with Mearls about the Ranger, it is not a nature's paladin at all. And it is not a half-fighter half-druid either. The roots of the Ranger are in Tolkien since the name itself, and it's got a lot to do with "ranging" i.e. reaching the farthest reaches of the world into the unknown. Being a survivalist and keen with nature is more like a necessity. I don't know where the "defender of the nature" came from but I think it came later, possibly from FR?

I do not feel the same way as his about Barbarians being nature's paladins either however. If they mostly represent the heroes of semi-civilized folks, they might still have more ties to nature than fully-civilized folks in the form of being more dependent on nature (and possibly even having a more nature-based religion), but they might also just be exploiters and plunderers pretty much the same way as city-dwellers.

Ancestral Guardian is a very cool concept by the way, but I do not see how this is more tied to nature than e.g. a Totem Warrior. Quite the opposite in fact, as soon as you're strongly tied to your own ancestors, you are putting your tribe and lineage pretty much above other people and creatures.

The only two Barbarian subclasses I see as natury are the Totem Barbarian and the Storm Herald Barbarian.

Bezrker Barbarian is just about raw rage and violence.

The Ancestral Guardian is almost necromantic, you really calling the dead back into the world of the living to serve you.

The Zealot is religious, I don't think this type of Barbarian really needs come from a Tribal background at all, people who have been become so fantatical that they enter into a rage at infidels could come just as easily from cities, as from tribes.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The only two Barbarian subclasses I see as natury are the Totem Barbarian and the Storm Herald Barbarian.

Bezrker Barbarian is just about raw rage and violence.

The Ancestral Guardian is almost necromantic, you really calling the dead back into the world of the living to serve you.

The Zealot is religious, I don't think this type of Barbarian really needs come from a Tribal background at all, people who have been become so fantatical that they enter into a rage at infidels could come just as easily from cities, as from tribes.

I'd argue ancestral guardians is more religious than necromantic.

I'm reading full ancestor worship into it, you honor your ancestors, leave offerings at the right times, tend to the graves, and they come back willingly to help you in return.

Necromancy has always struck me as starting from a more impersonal stance, you reach out to the dead in general, and sometimes build relationships with who you connect to.


Kind of the difference between going to a bar in a foreign city as opposed to going to a family reunion.

 

[Li Shenron]

The only two Barbarian subclasses I see as natury are the Totem Barbarian and the Storm Herald Barbarian.

Bezrker Barbarian is just about raw rage and violence.

The Ancestral Guardian is almost necromantic, you really calling the dead back into the world of the living to serve you.

The Zealot is religious, I don't think this type of Barbarian really needs come from a Tribal background at all, people who have been become so fantatical that they enter into a rage at infidels could come just as easily from cities, as from tribes.

I like these interpretations.

By the way, I also see some real-world inspiration behind these. Totem Warrior always suggested native Americans to me, while Storm Herald could be Viking. Ancestral Guardian may have something both Japanese and African. Zealot is more neutral in this sense, and Berserker is simply a Barbarian squared