D&D 5E Concepts for an arcane half-caster/gish

[Einlanzer0]

So, this is something that has always been strangely absent from the base class roster in D&D, and when we've gotten it as an "advanced" class in prior editions it's always been a bit lame, like being called "swordmage" and having no interesting fantasy behind it other than being a combination fighter/wizard. Compare this to its closest analogue, the paladin, which is a very high fantasy concept inspired by and named after a group of individuals from real world history - the highest warriors of Charlemagne's court.

It's my opinion that creating an iconic fighter/mage concept that is more than just fighter/mage with a lame name is long overdue. The concept I'm looking to build on for a future homebrew class is called The Argonaut, which would represent individuals trained by professional venturing companies to mix martial training with arcane magical training to be as versatile and self-reliant as possible in their pursuit of bounty or completion of a personal quest, with their subclasses being tied to different Venturing Companies.

What ideas do you have?

 

[aco175]

I like the idea, but I think it will lead to something too powerful over what we have already. Something with full spells and extra attack would be too powerful to me, but others may like it.

I would start with either fighter or mage as the primary and add casting and spells at higher levels. Sounds like a 3rd level path like bladedancer or something , but I think it can be a viable class be itself.

Another thing to think about is if it cannot be built already or by multi-classing.

 

[Slit518]

The concept I'm looking to build on for a future homebrew class is called The Argonaut, which would represent individuals trained by professional venturing companies to mix martial training with arcane magical training to be as versatile and self-reliant as possible in their pursuit of bounty or completion of a personal quest, with their subclasses being tied to different Venturing Companies.

What ideas do you have?

But the name Argonaut doesn't scream any of that for me. It's simply a word defining those who go on a quest, or a member of a band of people on a quest. To me, that doesn't scream Fighter/Mage.

Maybe we can get away with Arcane Warrior? Or is that too generic?

Honestly, back in the day, before 3rd edition, it used to be -

Bard - Arcane
Paladin - Divine
Ranger - Nature

But now a days the Bard does Charm/Enchantment/Ilussionary magics.

Let's come up with some different names?
Battle-caster
Arcane Warrior
Duskblade
Witcher
[insert extra name ideas here]

I like the idea, but I think it will lead to something too powerful over what we have already. Something with full spells and extra attack would be too powerful to me, but others may like it.


I would start with either fighter or mage as the primary and add casting and spells at higher levels. Sounds like a 3rd level path like bladedancer or something , but I think it can be a viable class be itself.


Another thing to think about is if it cannot be built already or by multi-classing.

I assume it would have a similar spell progression to Paladin & Ranger, and only get Extra Attack at level 5. It would have access to Simple and Martial Weapons, All Armor and Shields, and 4 out of the 6 fighting styles.

 

[jgsugden]

I feel like we do have a number of versions of this already:

Valor Bard
Eldritch Knight
Swordmage
Bladelock

I've played all 4 of those - and each felt Gishy from the get go. I walked into melee battle and used a combination of magic and melee to get the job done with each.

Valor Bard - this is perhaps the most obvious blending of magic and might. Eldrtich knight - I played a human variant with a feat to get a spell at level one (and cantrips) - so it was very gishy.

Swordmage - Sword wielding spellcasting elf from level 1 on....

Bladelock - This was a bit less gishy for levels 1 and 2 - but we hit level 3 VERY quickly (I think it took about 10 hours of game play to get there).

 

[aco175]

I just feel that we been through this before and need to come up with something better than giving a bunch of fighter powers and a bunch of mage powers. It needs to have a role and purpose to make it viable. I feel like I am pooing on the thread instead of helping, not my intent.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

Just here to give a shout out for the lovely College of Swords bards! You folks are awesome! <3

 

[Einlanzer0]

But the name Argonaut doesn't scream any of that for me. It's simply a word defining those who go on a quest, or a member of a band of people on a quest. To me, that doesn't scream Fighter/Mage.

Maybe we can get away with Arcane Warrior? Or is that too generic?

Honestly, back in the day, before 3rd edition, it used to be -

Bard - Arcane
Paladin - Divine
Ranger - Nature

But now a days the Bard does Charm/Enchantment/Ilussionary magics.

Let's come up with some different names?
Battle-caster
Arcane Warrior
Duskblade
Witcher
[insert extra name ideas here]



I assume it would have a similar spell progression to Paladin & Ranger, and only get Extra Attack at level 5. It would have access to Simple and Martial Weapons, All Armor and Shields, and 4 out of the 6 fighting styles.

My rebuttal to that is that paladin doesn't actually scream fighter/cleric either. The only reason you make that connection is because of concept link that D&D helped create which was very, very loosely based on the Paladins of Charlemagne's court. Why, then, could a fighter/mage archetype not be very, very loosely inspired by the companions that joined Jason on his quest?
That's kind of the point of my post.

 

[Slit518]

My rebuttal to that is that paladin doesn't actually scream fighter/cleric either. The only reason you make that connection is because of concept link that D&D helped create which was very, very loosely based on the Paladins of Charlemagne's court. Why, then, could a fighter/mage archetype not be very, very loosely inspired by the companions that joined Jason on his quest?
That's kind of the point of my post.

Wasn't he the Holy Roman Emperor? Wouldn't that make his nights "holy?" I don't think it's as much of a Paladin being a Fighter/Cleric as being a Knight imbued with the power of the faith, and the way they show that is with spells.

 

[Einlanzer0]

Wasn't he the Holy Roman Emperor? Wouldn't that make his nights "holy?" I don't think it's as much of a Paladin being a Fighter/Cleric as being a Knight imbued with the power of the faith, and the way they show that is with spells.

Not really. They were modeled after the knights of the round table, who were essentially just knights. Giving them divine magic was a way of making them more "exceptional" than the average fighter or knight, in the exact same way that naming a professional adventurer "argonaut" would make them exceptional. In my opinion, divine magic is no more implied with being an exceptional knight than arcane magic is with being an exceptional adventurer.

 

[mellored]

IMO: If you just want to can both hit stuff with swords and cast fireball, then be a fighter/mage. Or some combo of that. A more intresting idea would be a class that actaully mixes the two.

And I think the best way to do that would be to expanding the monk's more mystical side.
Add stuff like the last airbender, ninjisu, the western holy monk, and dragon ball z (like sunsoul, but not crappy).