Guidance Cleric cantrip is really dumb

[mrpopstar]

Kinda sounds like narrative immersion may be one of those terms that means something different to practically everyone?

Anything can mean anything for those who insist.

 

[FrogReaver]

Anything can mean anything for those who insist.

Sure, but this isn't one of those

 

[Mistwell]

So I make bad examples. got it.

It's OK man. We all pull a Clayton Cross, sometimes.

 

[mrpopstar]

Sure, but this isn't one of those

Kind of is.



Saying that "immersion means x to me" does not promote flexibility in the term. "To me" is a conversational tool that we use to demonstrate a lack of ability to articulate our true meaning, or to acknowledge a rift in communication where common ground is desired. When you hear "to me" you're being invited to explore an alternate perspective that the person has reached a limit in their ability to communicate using mastered words. It's a tacit acknowledgment that whatever terms being defined as having individual meaning is one that has another meaning that the speaker is unsure of but finds the term useful nonetheless.

 

[mrpopstar]

Did not in any way shape or form intend to start one of those semantic conversations that hijack threads. The whole of it is that [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] isn't wrong: that "immersion" is a term leveraged inconsistently (misused, overused, disused, reused, or all of the above) within our community and requires further engagement if the conversation is to bear any real fruit.

I'm just pedantic, and I communicate naturally, so I never really realized the inconsistency.

 

[Satyrn]

I think it would be fair to say that interest and curiosity describe "narrative investment." It could mean that you care and have a stake in the outcome. "Narrative immersion" is the experience of perceiving the story as though you are a part of it. It could mean that you feel like you are inside the story, as opposed to just looking in. You could be deeply invested while not the least bit immersed, but I think it would be difficult to be immersed without also being invested.



EDIT: Really, immersion is about forgetting the world around you. You can be immersed in the experience of playing D&D, without being immersed in the narrative you're creating. When you're immersed in the narrative, you forget that you are playing a game. When things happen that remind you of the fact that you're playing a game, immersion can be challenged.

An excellent explanation. Thank you.

I suppose it also helps me realize I don't care about immersion. But I really want that investment.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think it would be fair to say that interest and curiosity describe "narrative investment." It could mean that you care and have a stake in the outcome. "Narrative immersion" is the experience of perceiving the story as though you are a part of it. It could mean that you feel like you are inside the story, as opposed to just looking in. You could be deeply invested while not the least bit immersed, but I think it would be difficult to be immersed without also being invested.



EDIT: Really, immersion is about forgetting the world around you. You can be immersed in the experience of playing D&D, without being immersed in the narrative you're creating. When you're immersed in the narrative, you forget that you are playing a game. When things happen that remind you of the fact that you're playing a game, immersion can be challenged.

So a player that rolls dice as part of their skill check breaks everyones immersion? DM's should not use skill checks because they break immersion? Am I getting it now?

 

[ClaytonCross]

Kind of is.



Saying that "immersion means x to me" does not promote flexibility in the term. "To me" is a conversational tool that we use to demonstrate a lack of ability to articulate our true meaning, or to acknowledge a rift in communication where common ground is desired. When you hear "to me" you're being invited to explore an alternate perspective that the person has reached a limit in their ability to communicate using mastered words. It's a tacit acknowledgment that whatever terms being defined as having individual meaning is one that has another meaning that the speaker is unsure of but finds the term useful nonetheless.

Also, "In my opinion" is pretty much used the same way. I like them both and boy is there "rift in communication" when I post.

 

[Satyrn]

So a player that rolls dice as part of their skill check breaks everyones immersion? DM's should not use skill checks because they break immersion? Am I getting it now?

Step 1. Collect underpants.
Step 2.
Step 3. Profit!

Or as it relates to your post, it looks like you skipped a giant step to turn [MENTION=25352]mrpopstar[/MENTION]'s narrative underpants into profit.

 

[ClaytonCross]

So a player that rolls dice as part of their skill check breaks everyones immersion? DM's should not use skill checks because they break immersion? Am I getting it now?

So are you immersed now in your D&D character on these forums? A type of goblinoid perhaps? Doesn't die unless burnt with fire? I mean the commitment is real!

-Joking of course. I can defiantly see that you and Mistwell are either the same person with two accounts or very representative of a group the exact opposite view point that I have a hard time understanding. But other view points are good. If we all agreed their would be no point in coming here to post.