Missing Rules

[jgsugden]

A jump should be an exciting moment in a game. If it takes more than a moment to adjudicate, it is taking too long. The PHB rules handle it perfectly by giving simple, easy and dramatic - yet quick to adjudicate - rules.

 

[SkidAce]

He can’t fail a jump. A 1 is not an automatic failure unless there is a penalty for failure. Therefore there is no chance of him failing 7’ running long jump.

So it’s your roll plus your athletics score is your minimum, any athletics proficient PC will have a 3‘ minimum jump.

As a DM you have to watch how you draw terrain, if you draw a 1’ wide ledge into a 5’ space the the pc can just move from the ledge into the next 5’ space just by taking a step.

I would say falling into a very deep pit would be a penalty for failure.

 

[smbakeresq]

I would say falling into a very deep pit would be a penalty for failure.

That’s not how it works. There is no penalty for failing to jump a distance, you just don’t jump as far. What is underneath you doesn’t matter for the purposes of the jump check, your check determines the distance you jumped for that effort.

Think about it, as a DM you say “it’s 20’ to jump across a chasm, the DC is 20, start making checks as you each jump across.” Someone gets a 19, so they jumped 19’ and are 1’ away from the other side in the air, they didn’t “fail” to jump, they just jumped less. I would give them a Str and Dex check to grab the other side assuming they had 1’ of reach. I would grant advantage if they said something like “I am holding both of my daggers in my hands pointed down to dig them into the ledge if I am a little short.” Or using a the pick side of an ax the grab the ledge like Steppenwolf did in Justice League.

 

[dco]

You have some guidelines in the book, the rest is up to you, personally I give more penalties to people with armor, heavy weight, etc and use the xtreme difficulty (25) for world recor distances. In any case my advice is to adjudicate difficulties fast and keep going, don't lose time with that.

 

[smbakeresq]

A jump should be an exciting moment in a game. If it takes more than a moment to adjudicate, it is taking too long. The PHB rules handle it perfectly by giving simple, easy and dramatic - yet quick to adjudicate - rules.

This is %100 true, however i use jump ALL the time, especially as a martial PC. Jump over that difficult terrain, on that table and then off again to attack from above (and ask for a bonus to damage from DM), jump to get next to the bad guy in case the floor is trapped, etc.

As a DM I always use terrain and difficult terrain and hazardous terrain mixed in and around each other and at different heights. You would be amazed at how many players just follow the normal terrain around instead of just jumping over it or using acrobatics skill to tumble around it.

It’s a form of movement that is greatly underused considering how many regular situations it can be used in.

 

[smbakeresq]

You have some guidelines in the book, the rest is up to you, personally I give more penalties to people with armor, heavy weight, etc and use the xtreme difficulty (25) for world recor distances. In any case my advice is to adjudicate difficulties fast and keep going, don't lose time with that.

That’s why I use the 4e rule I mentioned before, it’s fast and easy and once your players know it they just do it for you without asking for a DC.

 

[Reynard]

Everything I stated in what you quoted is, in fact, taken from the rules. Whether you choose to run your game by those rules is completely up to you. You should not read my statement as an imperative that you must do so, only that this is what the book says. And it takes into account what you're referencing in the Using Ability Scores section in a way that dovetails with the basic conversation of the game and adjudicating actions.

But there is nothing in the rules that says that the character making the Strength (Athletics) check to jump an unusually long distance (a thing explicitly allowed by the rules) needs to come up with some convoluted explanation for how they are going to do so. Literally all they have to do is "I use Strength (Athletics) to jump an extra 5 feet" and your job is to assign a difficulty to that roll. Now, a player may say that they are going to find an outcropping in order to give them just a few more inches of height to try and clear the distance, or that they are going to use their spear as a pole vault or whatever it is, but none of those things are required by the rules. Your assertion that they can't simply make the roll against your prescribed DC is is what I take issue with. You may play it that way, of course, but doing so, IMO, puts an undo burden on a player who just wanted to make a nimble, athletic character that could jump, swim and climb better than others.

 

[ad_hoc]

Literally all they have to do is "I use Strength (Athletics) to jump an extra 5 feet" and your job is to assign a difficulty to that roll.

Well...this may seem inconsequential but I think it is very important.

Players don't declare that they are using skills.

Players say what their character is doing and if the DM judges that the outcome of what they are doing is both in doubt and interesting/has consequences then they call for an ability check and may call for a skill to go along with that.

So in this case the player would say "I jump across the chasm" then the DM adjudicates from there.

 

[Reynard]

Well...this may seem inconsequential but I think it is very important.

Players don't declare that they are using skills.

Players say what their character is doing and if the DM judges that the outcome of what they are doing is both in doubt and interesting/has consequences then they call for an ability check and may call for a skill to go along with that.

So in this case the player would say "I jump across the chasm" then the DM adjudicates from there.

I feel like that might have a negative effect on player agency. That is, there is a mechanic that seems to be in the purview of the player -- a rule regarding Strength (Athletics), for example -- but the player has to play "mother may I?" with the DM in order to act. I'm not sure that produces a positive play space.

 

[iserith]

Isn't it also ignoring the rule which says: You try to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump?

I don't remember if they say it in this edition, but I assume specific overrides general.

But there is nothing in the rules that says that the character making the Strength (Athletics) check to jump an unusually long distance (a thing explicitly allowed by the rules) needs to come up with some convoluted explanation for how they are going to do so. Literally all they have to do is "I use Strength (Athletics) to jump an extra 5 feet" and your job is to assign a difficulty to that roll. Now, a player may say that they are going to find an outcropping in order to give them just a few more inches of height to try and clear the distance, or that they are going to use their spear as a pole vault or whatever it is, but none of those things are required by the rules. Your assertion that they can't simply make the roll against your prescribed DC is is what I take issue with. You may play it that way, of course, but doing so, IMO, puts an undo burden on a player who just wanted to make a nimble, athletic character that could jump, swim and climb better than others.

The thing to remember is that there can be no Strength (Athletics) check without the character attempting an action that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure. The existence of a rule that includes an ability check and DC is implying an approach to a goal that precedes it which has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence of failure.

So, when we look at a character jumping a distance that is appropriate for his or her Strength and speed, the outcome is not uncertain. He or she just succeeds, if there's nothing stopping him or her. No roll. That action to jump has a goal (clear a certain distance) and an approach (jumping). To jump further than that, it stands to reason that some other approach is needed, one that has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful chance of failure. (Hence, the mention of "in some circumstances" in the Jump rules). Otherwise, the standard goal and approach is adjudicated as normal.