Star Trek Picard extended Comic-Con trailer

[Raunalyn]

I think the worst decision was to add individuality to the Borg.

It's done over and over again (in film and literature). First add an implacable (and therefore interesting) threat. Then give it a central processor, or in this case a Queen, and you instantly know the snake now has a head you can cut off.

The interesting foe instantly becomes normal, mundane, defeatable through regular means...

I loved the Borg as presented up until 1996; pre First Contact. Using the captains of your enemy as ultimately disposable commanders is genius.

Growing a head that allows your enemies to kill all of you with a single stroke, OTOH, is hackneyed lazy tired writing.

I 100% agree with this. The pre First Contact Borg were terrifying; cold, calculating, and utterly fearless, almost like an unstoppable virus that swept everything up before them. Adding individuality to them made them mundane; it was a cheesy way to make them defeatable.

 

[Raunalyn]

Truly implacable threats aren't interesting. If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends

An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it. A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part. Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.

I agree somewhat. However, it is the journey and growing to overcome that implacable threat that makes an interesting story, too.

 

[Umbran]

I agree somewhat. However, it is the journey and growing to overcome that implacable threat that makes an interesting story, too.

There is a huge difference between, "the implacable threat itself is interesting" and "the implacable threat makes for an interesting story and action by the protagonists".

 

[CapnZapp]

Truly implacable threats aren't interesting. If they are truly implacable, they kill your protagonists and win and the story ends

An antagonist isn't interesting if you cannot understand it. A human must be able to grasp the antagonist's motivations and plans, or the antagonist is a force of nature - and the antagonist in a natural disaster film isn't the interesting part. Once you can understand an antagonist, they are humanized, and thus have flaws, and can be beaten.

Umm... okay? So the argument "I want my foes completely implacable" has been struck down - great for you!

In the meanwhile, what are your opinions on what I am actually saying? (Do you like the way the Borg got a Queen, or not?)

Cheers, Z

 

[CapnZapp]

There is a huge difference between, "the implacable threat itself is interesting" and "the implacable threat makes for an interesting story and action by the protagonists".

And there's a huge difference between that and what I actually wanted to hear your opinions on, which is "giving swarm enemies a talking head is lame and trite"

 

[MarkB]

I agree about the Borg - they lost a lot of their menace with the introduction of the Borg Queen. As a threat which the protagonists had to learn to understand and find ways to effectively oppose they were interesting. Spontaneously becoming more ordinary felt cheap, and a waste of a good antagonist.

 

[Umbran]

Umm... okay? So the argument "I want my foes completely implacable" has been struck down - great for you!

In the meanwhile, what are your opinions on what I am actually saying? (Do you like the way the Borg got a Queen, or not?)

Well, you say more than one thing - if you want more focus in your answers, keep your presentation more focused

I think giving the Borg a face was inevitable. If you don't give them a face, they are, as I already noted, a force of nature. Characters don't interact *personally* with nature. So, dramatically speaking, the force of nature only allows you to play with the interactions you already have. It doesn't create new interactions. So, it is cool a couple of times, but eventually gets repetitive. It is only in relating with other sentient beings that we potentially have an antagonist with staying power.

They held this off as long as they could - exploring the "person" of the Borg through Hugh and 7 of 9. But eventually those become so human as to no longer really be Borg proxies. Eventually, to keep them narratively dynamic, the Borg needed to be personified. Thus, the Queen.

Was this the best personification of the Borg we could imagine? Maybe, maybe not. But something of this ilk was necessary, from a storytelling perspective.

 

[Legatus Legionis]

.

 

[trancejeremy]

While part of me thinks this is pretty neat, at the same time, I really wish there was a Star Trek that was more like Star Trek of the past...going into space and exploring new worlds.

I play Star Trek Online and basically it's one war after another. Seems like Star Trek has done that on screen since DS9. I mean, war was always part of Star Trek, what with the Klingons and Romulans. But it was more a backdrop, not the focus.

 

[Imaculata]

I've got to admit, seeing the Borg again made me groan a little. Why is that the first thing they go back to?