D&D 5E Tweaking 5E: Your knobs, dials and switches.

[Fanaelialae]

I believe what you're saying is you can add Hit Dice, not that you need to.

There is such a thing as implicit context.

Had my meaning been "Keep in mind that if you replace healing in 5e with hit dice, characters will need additional hit dice, else all your 5e books will violently combust" I would have said so, since that is not something that a person could ordinarily glean from the context. Since my meaning was with regard to preserving the existing balance, such as it is, I didn't think I needed to explicitly spell it out.

 

[Garthanos]

I keep the 3 attuned items limit so my games aren't too item dependent. Also keep the dmg cap at 30 attribute.

If your character getting 7? points of a basic primary class attribute from an item sure seems item dependent to me.
The attribute cap is normally 20... if you are breaking it with items, artifacts and tomes. --> more item dependence.

Now if we have some sort of mythic bloodlines dial which allows better less capped attribute advancement that might be a switch.

 

[CapnZapp]

There is such a thing as implicit context.

Had my meaning been "Keep in mind that if you replace healing in 5e with hit dice, characters will need additional hit dice, else all your 5e books will violently combust" I would have said so, since that is not something that a person could ordinarily glean from the context. Since my meaning was with regard to preserving the existing balance, such as it is, I didn't think I needed to explicitly spell it out.

And I'm saying you don't need more than your existing number of hit dice, maybe coupled with the Healer or Inspired Leader feats, to play 5E within reasonable bounds.

That is, you don't need cure wounds spells or some such just achieve the default balance.

Ergo, you don't particularly need more Hit Dice just to keep the game from falling outside expected bounds. You certainly can add more Hit Dice, but it's not something you need to do or the game becomes atypical.

See it as a change on par with allowing or disallowing feats. You *can* make the monsters harder to compensate for the addition of feats, but you don't *need* to. Maybe you *should*, but not reflexively, and only if you think your players would be bored otherwise.

 

[S'mon]

If your character getting 7? points of a basic primary class attribute from an item sure seems item dependent to me.
The attribute cap is normally 20... if you are breaking it with items, artifacts and tomes. --> more item dependence.

Now if we have some sort of mythic bloodlines dial which allows better less capped attribute advancement that might be a switch.

4 points not 7. 26>30. As a Barb-20 he had STR 24 at level 20, then 2 points via an Epic Boon award, and +4 from an item. I'm using the standard DMG Epic Boon rules for level 20 PCs; you might want to read it.

 

[Garthanos]

4 points not 7. 26>30. As a Barb-20 he had STR 24 at level 20, then 2 points via an Epic Boon award, and +4 from an item. I'm using the standard DMG Epic Boon rules for level 20 PCs; you might want to read it.

"The problem with capstones however is that you basically never will use them. "

I have read that comment and others like it more than once out here.

Level 20 just seems to be a bit late like kind of like "oh here is an after thought that doesn't really integrate with anything else "

Here is a bunch of class features which would be awesome if you get to use them and here is a few imbalanced boons some of which just rock others I would say are much like effects from the paragon ( err Masters of the Realm tier)

To me epic boons if its really part of the game ought to have been less wonky and would have begun at least as early as 17 (or even maybe 15).

I have actually also seen the solution to them being too end game is to just let them be sprinkled throughout the game so they arent such a stark and ultimately unused feature. Some seem kind of appropriate that way others really do not.

Are people even playing past level 20?

• Tier 1: Levels 1-4 - Local Heroes
• Tier 2: Levels 5-10 - Heroes of the Realm
• Tier 3: Levels 11-16 - Masters of the Realm
• Tier 4: Levels 17-20 - Masters of the World
  
  Those last tiers are basically 4e heroic 1-10, paragon 11 - 20, epic. 21 - 30 - and to me 4e planned for you to play with their 20 plus material

 

[S'mon]

Are people even playing past level 20?

Yes, as you'd know if you read my posts!

 

[Fanaelialae]

And I'm saying you don't need more than your existing number of hit dice, maybe coupled with the Healer or Inspired Leader feats, to play 5E within reasonable bounds.

That is, you don't need cure wounds spells or some such just achieve the default balance.

Ergo, you don't particularly need more Hit Dice just to keep the game from falling outside expected bounds. You certainly can add more Hit Dice, but it's not something you need to do or the game becomes atypical.

See it as a change on par with allowing or disallowing feats. You *can* make the monsters harder to compensate for the addition of feats, but you don't *need* to. Maybe you *should*, but not reflexively, and only if you think your players would be bored otherwise.

For standard 5e, I agree with you. But we're discussing a house rule where healing requires you to spend HD to have an effect. If you want to maintain the same level of difficulty, then you need to do something (with the most straight forward approach being to boost HD so that it keeps up with expected magical healing).

Put another way, a typical 1st level character has 1 HD. But, if there's a healer, they also have that healing to fall back on. And maybe a healing potion or two. That can easily be an additional 2 to 3 times max HP. As such, if you require them to spend a HD to benefit from magical healing, you've undercut their reserve HP significantly.

Sure, players can work around it with feats, but there's no guarantee that feats are allowed. Even if they are, is the DM going to mandate that players take these feats?

Don't get me wrong, I liked the idea in 4e and I still like it. It reminds me of the healing from the Wheel of Time, where magic could greatly accelerate healing but drew on the target's own stamina to do so. Too much healing could literally kill a person, and it explained why some injuries couldn't be healed even with magic.

5e is also a very flexible system that can tolerate a significant degree of modification without breaking. That said, a DM should always consider the potential consequences of any change that they make, including whether that change may necessitate additional changes.

 

[Garthanos]

Yes, as you'd know if you read my posts!

I assumed you might and consider that a valuable resource, particularly when you elaborate. But the question could have been taken in a broader context or an opportunity to segway.

 

[Retreater]

Let's see. My last ongoing 5E campaign, I heavily doctored the system. I basically re-wrote every monster I used. I regularly employed minions. I added auras and forced movement.

I took the average HP, AC, and damage potential of the PCs and used that to establish the baseline stats of the monsters depending on how many rounds I wanted the enemy to survive (usually a maximum of 5 rounds). I upped the damage to make combats threatening and added combat manuevers to make battles seem more dynamic (rather than "walk up, swing a sword, and chip away at a bag of HP until someone dies" affairs). As a result, the group consensus was the best balanced and exciting edition of D&D they had played.

If I were to DM 5E again on a regular basis, I would use this same formula.

 

[Garthanos]

For standard 5e, I agree with you. But we're discussing a house rule where healing requires you to spend HD to have an effect. If you want to maintain the same level of difficulty, then you need to do something (with the most straight forward approach being to boost HD so that it keeps up with expected magical healing).

Put another way, a typical 1st level character has 1 HD. But, if there's a healer, they also have that healing to fall back on.

So without a healer the game breaks OR it doesnt not sure but you do seem like you want it both ways. Either adding another defender or striker instead works or it doesnt.
And if it does work why would you need potions?

You could start at level 5 for me talking about apprentices running around fighting evil hoards gives the heebeegeebees.