What is the essence of D&D

[Zardnaar]

Is that a critical hit kicking in or that weapon specialization people are mentioning or what?

Fighters Handbook, kits, weapon styles, weapon speciazation phb, maybe optional rules from Combat and Tactics regarding weapon mastery or multiple weapon speciazation.

Optional rules allowing bonus nwp to be turned into weapon proficiency.

Fighters Handbook was basically 2E Complete Warrior/Martial Power useful for Paladin's and Rangers.

Also crafting rules so a PC master Smith could craft better weapons and armor or 18 int in 3E terms would give you 7 extra "feats".

 

[Maxperson]

AND I totally said he was FIGHTING vs the party Fighter....

Then the wizard loses badly. The fighter has an AC of 5, so the wizard gets 3 rolls needing 15 or better each time. He has to hit the fighter 3 times to win. The fighter on the other hand only needs 13 or better, and needs to roll better than 2 ones on his 2d4 to win with a single hit.

I'm assuming a 16 strength for the fighter and being generous and giving the wizard a 16 dex so he has an AC of 8, rather than the 10 he probably really has.

 

[Campbell]

To me the TL;DR version of this quote comes down to "I want system mastery to be more of an advantage in play".

Cool for you. Not for me.

I'd rather the system on the player side be simple enough to a) make full system mastery so easily attainable that anyone can do it, and thus no advantage anywhere; and b) just get out of the way so as to let me follow the story and play my character in character without having to reference rules all the time.

I am of the mind that if you want the mechanics to fade away then simply do not have them. If the expectation is that we are going to spend our time engaging with discrete mechanics instead of the fiction directly then those mechanics should be salient and deeply engaging. What purpose do mechanics serve if not to create compelling game play and emergent story?

At the end of the day I want to make meaningful choices that impact the outcome of things. I am fully comfortable doing so without system getting in the way (because there is no system to get in the way). Several of the games I like to play have no combat system at all.

I want to play the game hard and play my character hard. I also do not want to follow the story. I want to actively experience it and be part of creating it.

 

[Garthanos]

Your math sucks.

1 hit from a wizard: average damage with a dart 2
1 hit from a fighter: average damage with a bastard sword 6(5+1 for str)

You embarrass yourself again you cannot even get the average right

I did the damage from d8 (4.5 +1 for strength you want the bastard sword instead of the longsword that would be 5.5 + 1?

if the mage hits .3 and the fighter .4

and the fighter hits .4 you miss almost 2 out of three times it might easily take you 3 rounds to get that one shot in and the mage is very very likely to have had 2 or even 3 hits in...
he has tried 9 times already

 

[Garthanos]

Then the wizard loses badly.

That was sarcasm TOTALLY

caused by you doing this....

So let's face off. Wizard with a 8-10AC vs. a fighter with a 5AC. You get 3 darts per round and I get a bastard sword. I'll won't even make you roll.

SMH

 

[Hussar]

@Garthanos

No one used weapon speed factors. A mean like maybe a couple people. This is like the people who claim that Non Weapon Proficiencies were optional. Technically correct, but who cares.

Really? Every group I ever played with in 2e used speed factors. Random initiative per round as well.

 

[Maxperson]

You embarrass yourself again you cannot even get the average right

I did the damage from d8 (4.5 +1 for strength you want the bastard sword instead of the longsword that would be 5.5 + 1?

You don't get to change the weapon. It's a bastard sword and it's 2d4+1

and the fighter hits .4 you miss almost 2 out of three times it might easily take you 3 rounds to get that one shot in and the mage is very very likely to have had 2 or even 3 hits in...
he has tried 9 times already

The reality is that the wizard probably has a 10AC. He's very unlikely to have a dex bonus. He gets hit on an 11. I was being nice to you, and the wizard still loses.

 

[Maxperson]

Really? Every group I ever played with in 2e used speed factors. Random initiative per round as well.

Same here.

 

[Hussar]

Is that a critical hit kicking in or that weapon specialization people are mentioning or what?

Two weapon specialization, longsword and shortsword with ambidexterity and specs in longsword. Granted, it's true, this would be on the second round, but, (1d12+2/1d12+2/1d8) gives me 32 points of damage, before a strength bonus. Count in any sort of percentile strength and now I'm doing 41 points. Most trolls tap in around 30 HP.

I'm certainly obliterating an ogre in a single round.

2e didn't have critical damage.

 

[Lanefan]

::: plink ::: ::: plink :::

Giant Ant: AC 2
Baboon: AC 7
Badger: AC 4
Fire beetle: AC 4
Bugbear: AC 5
Carrion Crawler: AC 7
Giant Centipede: AC 9 and finally one that averages those low hit points you mention below, but oh, it had save or die poison.
Crab: AC 3

Sorry bud. 4-5 AC is looking pretty common.

Carrion Crawler against a 1st-level party? That's pretty hardcore - I've given parties of 3rd-5th+ levels fits with those things!

A solo Bugbear against a party? That AC 5 won't save it for long, though it'll take some punishment before going down.