D&D General Compelling and Differentiated Gameplay For Spellcasters and Martial Classes

[Garthanos]

Neovancian casting and the implementation of ritual casting seen in Fifth Edition only serve to make casters more potent out of combat.

At the very least I think ritual casting should go. It serves to increase spell caster utility, flexibility, and power when they do not really need any help there. I do not understand what the design intent was here.

Rituals in 4e were actually not too bad OK there were improvements that could be made for instance at high level those low level rituals which sometimes effectively scale in value should also have scaled in cost (like Alarm should scale to match the creatures it is detecting or even conversely only have its real cost kick in when its triggered so you arent spending money for nothing).

Part of the change was wealth handling with the edition. 3e and Pathfinder acknowledge wealth was a part of power 4e continued that... ummm 5e has spells with a cost on them but it is effectively a meaningless cost.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah, enough that the fighters taking down a dragon several sizes bigger than a Mammoth is very much creeping into superpower territory.

But they aren't several sizes bigger. An adult red dragon and an elephant are both huge rated creatures. Does a dragon have better protection than a mammoth's hide? Yep. But a hardened steel lance is also much better than a flint spear tip. So I think it's an apt comparison.

 

[GMMichael]

So how do we create an environment for skilled play where distinctions that reflect how it should feel to be a fighter or a monk or a sorcerer or a cleric are felt in play?

Is this what you had in mind?

Fighter: focus on physical damage and protection in extended conflict, as well as posturing, with multiple actions,

Sorceror: focus on resource management of metaphysical health, with combined actions, in both extended conflict and simple conflict,

Monk: focus on shaping simple conflict to utilize best skill choices, which adds emphasis to hero point usage.

There is a middle ground between rigidly defined mechanics and no mechanical support. Games like Apocalypse World, Exalted Third Edition, Chronicles of Darkness, and the new Legend of the Five Rings live in this space.

Oh. So the answer is either "play something other than D&D," or "tweet at Mike Mearls until 6th edition solves the problem." Got it.

 

[Oofta]

Oh. So the answer is either "play something other than D&D," or "tweet at Mike Mearls until 6th edition solves the problem." Got it.

At a certain point, what do you expect? You have a few basic options if 5E doesn't suit your needs. Implement house rules, possibly grabbing some from from Dmsguild. Play a different game or edition. Wait for a UA article and participate in the survey and give feedback. Accept that no game can be for everyone.

The rules are what they are. They aren't going to change because a subset of people dislike it. They definitely aren't going to change just because you post to a message board.

 

[Manbearcat]

Oh. So the answer is either "play something other than D&D," or "tweet at Mike Mearls until 6th edition solves the problem." Got it.

Orrrr...

Come to a website devoted to discussing nerdy TTRPGing stuff and have a (hopefully interesting and provocative) conversation with other nerds about it?

Far-fetched, I know.

 

[Garthanos]

They aren't going to change because a subset of people dislike it.

LOL how quaint...

 

[Oofta]

LOL how quaint...

Do you have a point?

 

[Son of the Serpent]

And the classics of myth and legend who fought dragons, like Beowulf often are described with various other gifts.

This is very relevant to my point. Beowulf is described having many abilities. Hes still not able to "do all the things" though. You could much more easily emulate him with a class that isnt the vague "fighter"

 

[Son of the Serpent]

LOL how quaint...

This jab is very literally quaint...kek...

@Oofta i dont know about you but i chortled
Veritably

 

[Garthanos]

This is very relevant to my point. Beowulf is described having many abilities. Hes still not able to "do all the things" though. You could much more easily emulate him with a class that isnt the vague "fighter"

Oh right the do ALL the things guy is Lugh Lamfada ... but ALL of the things included Sorceror so I am not thinking he helps

You could make that sorceror ritualist, plus a handful of other magics.