D&D 5E Ban Variant-Human! Impact?

[Maxperson]

Not having dark vision is a minor inconvenience. A free feat is huge.

I disagree. Being forced to either be a beacon in the night to everything that might want to eat you, or being blind for encounters you do have, is a huge negative. A group where everyone has darkvision has it much better.

 

[Maxperson]

Is this statement true or untrue - Sometimes the beholder just doesn’t see what’s plainly before his eyes?

It doesn't matter. In this case it's not a lack of vision. It's a lack of agreement with you. You have an issue with how soon classes get feats with the human variant. I don't. It's simply not a problem and never will be a problem in my game.

Since this is your personal issue, rather than something that is universal, change it for your game. You could just allows a max of 2 feats to all PCs. That would solve your issue and still allow the variant human. So what if they get to a non-problematic 2 feats sooner than the elf.

 

[Esker]

DC 20 persuasion auto success is fun. How the bonuses get there directly impacts what levels it becomes available. That 14 starting CHA means it's there at 10th level with expertise. The wood elf example that has 10 CHA gets the same option but not until 13th level. The wood elf example with 14 CHA can do the same thing at the same time.

Well, 11th, when reliable talent comes on, but sure. If auto-succeeding at difficult persuasion rolls is a high priority, then probably wood elf is not the right choice, but half-elf would do better. Start with 8,16,14,12,13,14, max DEX by 8th, maybe take Observant at 10th, and have auto 20s in two CHA-skills by 11th. You're down one each in STR and INT compared to the human, but get two more proficiencies, and if you choose can get INT to 14 by 12th so now you're auto-succeeding on DC 20 Investigation rolls too (but yes, at the cost of delaying getting CHA to 18 for those auto-20s on non-expertised skills).

I would point out going wood elf gives only penalties to the abilities scores in comparison at this point. These are minor in STR and INT but they still exist. Matching the ability score spread was impossible for the elf and ended up with minor concessions.

Yup, I've granted that all along --- they get more ability points, so on a pure stat-to-stat comparison where even spread is valued, they come out ahead. But the stats you're behind in as an elf or half-elf are by definition your two lowest priorities. If you feel the need to specialize in disparate skills (such as stealth, perception, investigation and persuasion as in your example), then yes, standard human will be able to hit all of those auto 20s a little sooner. My main point is just that the price they pay for that (1-2 skills where they have proficiency are the main ones in this hypothetical no-combat campaign) is likely to be higher than the benefit they get, in terms of how often those rolls are likely to come up. And if there is any amount of combat, they spent 9 levels (or however many it is from where you start until level 10) behind in AC, attacks, and stealth.

 

[FrogReaver]

Considering that every single guidebook counts race ability score pairing to class as a very important part of picking classes, and that there's only a single race (subrace really) in everything they have come out with so far that has +2/+2, and having them floating to put them whereever you want including the god stat DEX - I can't agree. That's way too powerful.

Wait a minute - didn't you argue with me that a +1/+1 and a feat weren't too strong and now you are arguing that +2/+2 is too strong???

 

[Blue]

Wait a minute - didn't you argue with me that a +1/+1 and a feat weren't too strong and now you are arguing that +2/+2 is too strong???

That was my first post in this thread, so likely not.

I actually find it unfortunate that the racial ability score modifiers are the majority of "power" for the races, because if they all have them there's little free design space to have powerful races. However, they are. And with only a single +2/+2 race and that one really locked into a melee front-liner (with 25' speed and now-redundant weapon/armor profs), +2/+2 floating seems very powerful.

 

[FrogReaver]

That was my first post in this thread, so likely not.

I actually find it unfortunate that the racial ability score modifiers are the majority of "power" for the races, because if they all have them there's little free design space to have powerful races. However, they are. And with only a single +2/+2 race and that one really locked into a melee front-liner (with 25' speed and now-redundant weapon/armor profs), +2/+2 floating seems very powerful.

Then sorry! I am getting my threads crossed!

 

[Ratskinner]

Not having dark vision is a minor inconvenience. A free feat is huge.

That's highly campaign and DM dependent. - just saying

My last campaign was all humans and I pushed lighting pretty hard.

 

[FrogReaver]

That's highly campaign and DM dependent. - just saying

My last campaign was all humans and I pushed lighting pretty hard.

Would you have pushed it just as hard if there would have been a single human or non-darkvision PC?

 

[Gladius Legis]

Considering that every single guidebook counts race ability score pairing to class as a very important part of picking classes, and that there's only a single race (subrace really) in everything they have come out with so far that has +2/+2, and having them floating to put them whereever you want including the god stat DEX - I can't agree. That's way too powerful.

I don't think it's too powerful. Very strong, yes, but not overpowered. I'll use the Paladin as an example, with a Lv. 4 under point buy allowing for 18s in STR and CHA with this version of the Human.

At that level, that Paladin mainly just gets +1 to spell save DC (good but not overpowered), while hitting like any other Paladin who bumped STR to 18 at Lv. 4.

Two levels later, that Paladin gets an extra +1 to their's and nearby allies' saves over other Paladins. But that's Lv. 6, where such a thing is less problematic.

In any case, I don't see this being as problematic as what Healer, HAM and PM can all do at Lv. 1.

 

[Ratskinner]

Would you have pushed it just as hard if there would have been a single human or non-darkvision PC?

Probably. It depends on the mood I'm trying to set in the game. Its not really hard, just ask "Who is holding the torch(es)?" as they roll initiative.

Now, that also might vary with edition. 1e Dwarves are a bit over-the-top, so pushing it there can seriously disadvantage the humans overall.