D&D (2024) Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)?

[Richards]

Nice - what's his name? Jack? Gourdon?

Johnathan

 

[Yaarel]

Nice - what's his name? Jack? Gourdon?

Johnathan

Kin of the Pumps

 

[Tallifer]

And this is what I used for an Ice Dragon:

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Give some types of dragons pets that are culturally common to their type of dragon. Perhaps the equivalent dragon to a person who likes cats (or a wizard who has a familiar) might have a tatzlewurm. Give green, blue, gold, copper, and bronze dragons tatzlewurms.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Heh, Im unsure how many Medieval Europeans have seen this image.

But yeah, spot on. A blend of snake-lion-eagle. Plus horns. This blend is remarkably psychologically compelling.

Those arent horns. They are the forward pointing ears of a linx with exagerated pointiness and possibly tufts. Not horns at all.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Yeah.

In the older stories about a dragon, the earlier authorship often had a different image in mind for what the dragon looked like, than the one that the later audiences had.

For example, the story of Fafnir shapeshifting into a dragon (Dreki). A runestone from around 1000 depicts it as a massive horned snake, breathing out vapor of venom. But later, a wood carving from the 1200s depicts Fafnir as having eagle arms and eagle wings, and a more lionlike head.

Also "lionlike" is the commonality of asiatic dragons. European dragons are far more varied in head shape and although there are feline features they are rarely distinctively lion like feline features and instead broadly felines in general. Som lion like features ones exist. Those are actually rare. Mostly its a wide variety of animalistic head features and when feline usually not lion in particular.

 

[Yaarel]

Also "lionlike" is the commonality of asiatic dragons. European dragons are far more varied in head shape and although there are feline features they are rarely distinctively lion like feline features and instead broadly felines in general. Som lion like features ones exist. Those are actually rare. Mostly its a wide variety of animalistic head features and when feline usually not lion in particular.

Yeah.

The reason for the variable head shapes of the medieval European dragon is because this dragon archetype specifically emerges, historically, in the context of a specific kind of military banner, called a Draco. This military banner is for a Roman cavalry unit.

The cavalry banner is essentially a tubular wind-sock, that waves like a serpent in the wind and while galloping on the horse. Different cavalry units placed different heads on the sock tubes, to identify each unit respectively to coordinate military tactical maneuvers. Some sock-tube banners would have snake heads, some lion heads, some wolf heads, some boar heads, and so on. The colors of wind-socks also differed. A distinctive banner for each cavalry unity.

The Romans called this serpent-like military banner a ‘Draco’ in Latin.

The Latin word Draco specifically is the Latin name for the African rock python. Greek references to this species of snake, is the original meaning that all of the European bestiaries are describing, under the entry name ‘Draco’. But since few Europeans have ever actually seen an African rock python, the term tended to mean any ‘serpent’ generally, especially a large snake that strangled its prey by wrapping around it before swallowing it.

So, the Latin name for the cavalry wind-sock banner was something like the ‘serpent banner’, the Draco. This serpent featured numerous different kinds of heads, and different sock-tube bodies with different colors or patterns.

Because the Draco is a real animal, mentioned in the bestiaries, Europeans guessed at what this kind of deadly snake that can kill an elephant might look like. The medieval European ‘popculture’ assumed that the Latin Draco military banners were intended to represent what the real python snake looked like, including the ability of this snake to possibly feature different kinds of heads.

So, the bestiaries − which were intended to be serious scholarly encyclopedias of known animals − began to depict the ‘Draco’ entry as various kinds of large monstrous snakes with diversely shaped heads. Likewise, the bestiary entry often conflated other ‘popculture’ understandings about deadly serpents, including a New Testament reference of a vision of a ‘serpent’ ‘in the heavens’, thus the snake gained wings to fly in the air, or sometimes a barbed tail to pull down stars or angels, a barbed tongue (as opposed to a forked tongue) to hook, ‘deceive’ and ‘seduce’, targets by means of speech, and so on, mixing-and-matching various traditions about monstrous serpents. Including, of course, deadly venomous serpents.



Note. The Welsh tradition describes ‘two dragons’, a white one and a red one, fighting each other. This prophetic vision is literally two armies fighting each other. The cavalry of each army has a different color wind-sock for its cavalry unit. One wind-sock is white, and one wind-sock is red. The Welsh army has the red Draco banner. The symbolic dreamlike vision depicted these banners as living serpents fighting each other to represent the respective armies in combat on the battlefield.

Note. The Norse word for ‘dragon’ is Dreki. Its etymology is Non-Norse, being borrowed directly from the Latin word Draco, ‘python’ or ‘serpent’. The Norse encountered this Latin word, via trade routes with the Germanic tribes who served as mercenaries in the Roman military, including the Roman cavalries. For example, the Saxon and Frankish militaries continued to use Draco as a military standard. Rarely, but in significant contexts, the Norse sometimes used the Latin-borrowed word Dreki, for its own indigenous traditions about specific monstrous snakes. Such as, the monstrous snake that the Dvergar Fafnir shapeshifted into, and the monstrous snake Níðhǫggr that has wings, being a shapeshifted Jǫtunn. The Norse also used the word Dreki for its Viking ‘dragonship’, a kind of luxury war boat for chieftains and other officers, whose prow would feature various removable ornaments, including various animal heads as military standards. The Nordic Post-Viking Period 1100-1400, under Pan-European literary influence, came to increasingly depict its own Norse ‘Dreki’ with non-snake heads, such as a lion-like head or a wolf-like head.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Yeah.

The reason for the variable head shapes of the medieval European dragon is because this dragon archetype specifically emerges, historically, in the context of a specific kind of military banner, called a Draco. This military banner is for a Roman cavalry unit.

The cavalry banner is essentially a tubular wind-sock, that waves like a serpent in the wind and while galloping on the horse. Different cavalry units placed different heads on the sock tubes, to identify each unit respectively to coordinate military tactical maneuvers. Some sock-tube banners would have snake heads, some lion heads, some wolf heads, some boar heads, and so on. The colors of wind-socks also differed. A distinctive banner for each cavalry unity.

The Romans called this serpent-like military banner a ‘Draco’ in Latin.

The Latin word Draco specifically is the Latin name for the African rock python. Greek references to this species of snake, is the original meaning that all of the European bestiaries are describing, under the entry name ‘Draco’. But since few Europeans have ever actually seen an African rock python, the term tended to mean any ‘serpent’ generally, especially a large snake that strangled its prey by wrapping around it before swallowing it.

So, the Latin name for the cavalry wind-sock banner was something like the ‘serpent banner’, the Draco. This serpent featured numerous different kinds of heads, and different sock-tube bodies with different colors or patterns.

Because the Draco is a real animal, mentioned in the bestiaries, Europeans guessed at what this kind of deadly snake that can kill an elephant might look like. The medieval European ‘popculture’ assumed that the Latin Draco military banners were intended to represent what the real python snake looked like, including the ability of this snake to possibly feature different kinds of heads.

So, the bestiaries − which were intended to be serious scholarly encyclopedias of known animals − began to depict the ‘Draco’ entry as various kinds of large monstrous snakes with diversely shaped heads. Likewise, the bestiary entry often conflated other ‘popculture’ understandings about deadly serpents, including a New Testament reference of a vision of a ‘serpent’ ‘in the heavens’, thus the snake gained wings to fly in the air, or sometimes a barbed tail to pull down stars or angels, a barbed tongue (as opposed to a forked tongue) to hook, ‘deceive’ and ‘seduce’, targets by means of speech, and so on, mixing-and-matching various traditions about monstrous serpents. Including, of course, deadly venomous serpents.



Note. The Welsh tradition describes ‘two dragons’, a white one and a red one, fighting each other. This prophetic vision is literally two armies fighting each other. The cavalry of each army has a different color wind-sock for its cavalry unit. One wind-sock is white, and one wind-sock is red. The Welsh army has the red Draco banner. The symbolic dreamlike vision depicted these banners as living serpents fighting each other to represent the respective armies in combat on the battlefield.

Note. The Norse word for ‘dragon’ is Dreki. Its etymology is Non-Norse, being borrowed directly from the Latin word Draco, ‘python’ or ‘serpent’. The Norse encountered this Latin word, via trade routes with the Germanic tribes who served as mercenaries in the Roman military, including the Roman cavalries. Rarely, but in significant contexts, the Norse sometimes used the Latin-borrowed word Dreki, for its own indigenous traditions about specific monstrous snakes. Such as, the monstrous snake that the Dvergar Fafnir shapeshifted into, and the monstrous snake Níðhǫggr that has wings, being a shapeshifted Jǫtunn. The Norse also used the word Dreki for its Viking ‘dragonship’, a kind of luxury war boat for chieftains and other officers, whose prow would feature various removable ornaments, including various animal heads as military standards. The Nordic Post-Viking Period 1100-1400, under Pan-European literary influence, came to increasingly depict its own Norse ‘Dreki’ with non-snake heads, such as a lion-like head or a wolf-like head.

No. The variable head features go all the way back to primitive indo eauropean religious myth in the last stages is animism. Serpents with weird heads can be found in cave paintings from in areas around the cacausus and in india from around the time the indo europeans were moving through there. Obviously the resolution, so to speak, of said figures is low but the heads already feature things like horns and ears. Details that dont require precision. Its also able to be reconstructed for alternative verification from early germanic and early hindu legends. They bith spwak of very similar beasts and they both got this influence from said indo european myths.

 

[Yaarel]

One of the difficulties is a weird D&D 5e-ism. Where a creature can only be one single creature type.

For example, 5e says in Xanathars, an Eladrin can either be a ‘humanoid’ or a ‘fey’, but cannot be both. A 5e Eladrin who is a ‘fey humanoid’, both, is impossible.

Likewise, the Cuatl can ONLY be either ‘celestial’ or ‘dragon’, but not both at the same time.



Personally, I find this false-dicotomy design unhelpful.



For example, the Fairy Dragon should be both a ‘fey dragon’, not just a dragon.

Using multiple descriptors when they apply narratively would be helpful and make it easier to represent the various kinds of dragons.