D&D General The Sales of D&D vs. AD&D vs. AD&D 2nd Edition

The 2nd edition of AD&D sold well when it was released. Combined, the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Player’s Handbook sold over 400,000 copies in their first year. That’s a lot of books. Not the most ever sold by TSR, but a lot. To give some historical comparison, the 1981 D&D Basic Rules Set sold over 650,000 copies in its first year. To compare to previous editions of AD&D, the 1st edition DMG and PHB together sold over 146,000 copies in 1979. Putting those numbers together makes AD&D 2nd edition look like a solid hit. But it hides a deeper problem.

The 2nd edition of AD&D sold well when it was released. Combined, the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Player’s Handbook sold over 400,000 copies in their first year. That’s a lot of books. Not the most ever sold by TSR, but a lot. To give some historical comparison, the 1981 D&D Basic Rules Set sold over 650,000 copies in its first year. To compare to previous editions of AD&D, the 1st edition DMG and PHB together sold over 146,000 copies in 1979. Putting those numbers together makes AD&D 2nd edition look like a solid hit. But it hides a deeper problem.

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Benjamin Riggs shares some D&D history! This was posted on Facebook and shared with permission.


AD&D 2nd edition didn’t have the legs that AD&D 1st edition did. Combined sales of the 1st edition DMG and PHB actually went up at first, selling over 390,000 in 1980, over 577,000 in 1981, over 452,000 in 1982, and 533,000 in 1983 before finally sliding to just over 234,000 in 1984, at the time when TSR began its first crisis. Meanwhile, the 2nd edition DMG and PHB would never sell more than 200,000 copies in a single year after 1989. In short, 2nd edition wasn’t selling like its predecessor.

But if AD&D 2nd edition looks small in comparison to1st edition, both shrink before the altar of Dungeons & Dragons. Including 1st, 2nd edition, revised 2nd edition, and introductory sets, AD&D sold a total of 4,624,111 corebooks between 1979 and 1998. Meanwhile, D&D sold 5,454,859 units in that same period, the vast bulk of those purchases coming between 1979 and 1983.

TSR could no longer put up the sales numbers it once did. Even D&D, which sold better than AD&D in either iteration, didn’t sell in the 90’s like it did in the 80’s. What had changed? Something changed, but what was it? Was it that Gary Gygax was gone? Had something gone wrong with 2nd edition? Was a rule changed that shouldn’t have been? Was it too complex? Not complex enough? Had RPGs been a fad that faded? Should the AD&D lines be canceled entirely to focus on the historically better-selling D&D?

These numbers should have been an occasion for self-reflection and correction all over TSR.

But they weren’t.

These numbers were left in the offices of upper management. Zeb Cook himself said he never saw any concrete sales numbers for 2nd edition. The decision by management under Lorraine Williams to keep sales numbers like those above restricted to the top of the company must be seen as a mistake. The inability of the game designers to know how their product was selling cut them off from economic feedback on their product. I see those numbers, and what I read is that TSR’s audience bought the 2nd edition books, read them, and just weren’t crazy about them. (Although I myself am quite partial to the rules, as they are what I grew up playing.) But Zeb Cook didn’t know that, so how could he make changes to improve his craft in the future?

Benjamin went on to note his source: "I have a source who sent me a few pages of sales data from TSR. It's primary source material. I don't have everything, but I do have the data contained in the post above." He is currently writing a book on the sale of TSR to Wizards of the Coast.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
But the point is, the TT Storyteller crowd consisted both of established TTRPGers who had moved on from D&D and plenty of new players who had played Mind's Eye Theatre versions of the game, first.

I am sure there were some MET players who came to tabletop. I am not sure how "plenty" they were, on the scale of these things. And I don't think any influx of them was a relevant portion of the competition in tabletop games The timeline just doesn't support that idea.

Vampire: the Masquerade was published in 1991, and won the Origins Award for best RPG of its year.

MET didn't come along until 1993. It starting player base came from tabletop games. It would take years to attract non-tabletop players, and convert them to tabletop players in any real numbers - maybe around 1995 you'd start to feel that?

But note that TSR crashed, and was bought by WotC, in 1997. Their finaincial issues were well established by 1995... so no, the idea that MET theater folks were crowding the tabletop scene such that they were an issue doesnt' seem to hang together well. Larpers did not help kill TSR.
 

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Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
But note that TSR crashed, and was bought by WotC, in 1997. Their finaincial issues were well established by 1995... so no, the idea that MET theater folks were crowding the tabletop scene such that they were an issue doesnt' seem to hang together well. Larpers did not help kill TSR.
I think it's quite fair to say that TSR's senior leadership mismanagement in that era is what killed TSR.
 
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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
MET didn't come along until 1993.
Worth noting here is that M:tG also launched in 1993 (at GenCon), and by mid 1994 was already huge. Crazy numbers of new players, very few if any of whom ended up spilling over into TTRPGs.

1993 was not a good year for TTRPG enthusiasts.

Larpers did not help kill TSR.
Anecdotally*, there's one way in which they might have: those new to role-playing in general were being drawn in by Vampire etc., and not by D&D; and so that "new money" was going to other companies and not to TSR.

* - as in, I knew a decent number of such people during the '90s.
 

This Known World was the world which ~5 million D&D customers were raised on.
I wouldn't presume 5 million D&D players were necessarily raised on Mystara/Known World even if many of the products were set there. I played a lot of BECMI through the 80's and I had never even heard of Mystara/Known World until well into the 90s with Planescape and Spelljammer and their cross-setting references.

As with every edition, the settings are typically far less known and used than the core rules.

That aside, I do think more effort to revive old settings (even just on DMsGuild rather than "cluttering up" their hardcover product line) would be incredible and I'm all for it!
 

I wouldn't presume 5 million D&D players were necessarily raised on Mystara/Known World even if many of the products were set there. I played a lot of BECMI through the 80's and I had never even heard of Mystara/Known World until well into the 90s with Planescape and Spelljammer and their cross-setting references.

As with every edition, the settings are typically far less known and used than the core rules.

That aside, I do think more effort to revive old settings (even just on DMsGuild rather than "cluttering up" their hardcover product line) would be incredible and I'm all for it!
We seriously need something dragon mag or dungeon mag to be back on the scene in full force. So much gold has been lost.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
There was some of that on the east coast, too, I've heard.

Yes, and it isn't like MET actually created the idea of indoor larp that wasn't hitting people with foam swords. I am pretty sure the first live-action game I played in was at a convention in Boston, January 1993, months before MET hit the bookstores, IIRC. And it had nothing to do with vampires...
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I am sure there were some MET players who came to tabletop. I am not sure how "plenty" they were, on the scale of these things. And I don't think any influx of them was a relevant portion of the competition in tabletop games The timeline just doesn't support that idea.
It's not like there was ever competition in TTRPGs that was relevant to TSR. M:tG siphoned off potential new players, but wasn't an RPG, in that vaccum, the next-most-significant source of new players was a different demographic, through the LARP side - except for that instance, D&D was the major entry point, and competition in the TTRPG market was for customers who were willing to play something else in addition to D&D or having tried D&D and not liked it, stuck around long enough to discover other games.

Vampire: the Masquerade was published in 1991, and won the Origins Award for best RPG of its year.
MET didn't come along until 1993. It starting player base came from tabletop games.
'93 is also when M:tG dropped. CCGs and LARPs became huge at the conventions I attended in the 90s, CCGs a fad that obliterated everything else for a couple years, LARPs filling out in the wake of it.

I have a vivid, unpleasant memory of attending a convention towards the end of the 90s, the longest-running, D&D convention in the area, dating back to '76, the halls were crowed with eyelinered LARPers, the open gaming room jammed with card games, and no one under 30 was playing D&D. I was like "so this is what wargamers felt like..."

Their finaincial issues were well established by 1995... so no, the idea that MET theater folks were crowding the tabletop scene such that they were an issue doesnt' seem to hang together well. Larpers did not help kill TSR.
Their financial issues also had next to nothing to do with their dominance in the TTRPG market, they ran themselves into the ground in plenty of other ways.
But, financials aside, the TTRPG scene in the 90s shifted from being dominated by D&D, to being strongly influenced - even 'led' - by Storyteller. That was concurrent with a number of things, M:tG monopolizing new players in D&D traditional demographic, TSR self-immolating, pop culture going in for conspiracy theories/Vampires/X-Files, a Democratic President, the September that Never Ended & the ROLL v ROLE debate....
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I grew up in Oklahoma during the 1980s, at the height of the Satanic Panic. My mom had bought me the Basic, red-box rules set for my 13th birthday, and just a few months later the stores would stop selling them completely almost overnight. It would be decades before anything with "Dungeons & Dragons" printed on the cover would be for sale anywhere in the state. Heck, I had to trade away most of my X-Man comic books with a kid at school just to get a used (very used) copy of the Expert rules and The Isle of Dread.

Going to AD&D was never an option for me and my friends, so we stayed with B/X all the way through middle school and high school. If my mom had gotten me the AD&D books instead of the Basic D&D set, I'm sure the reverse would have been true.

We're spoiled for choice here in the 21st Century. But back in the 1980s, "choice" was a lot harder to come by for consumers...especially kids.
 
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I have a vivid, unpleasant memory of attending a convention towards the end of the 90s, the longest-running, D&D convention in the area, dating back to '76, the halls were crowed with eyelinered LARPers, the open gaming room jammed with card games, and no one under 30 was playing D&D. I was like "so this is what wargamers felt like..."
yeah. The last time I went to Gencon in 2000, I felt the same way... never did return. That said, I've been looking around at upcoming conventions in CO and here in Cheyenne.... not having been to a gaming convention in 20 years, I thought it would be fun to attend one again...
 

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