D&D General The Sales of D&D vs. AD&D vs. AD&D 2nd Edition

The 2nd edition of AD&D sold well when it was released. Combined, the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Player’s Handbook sold over 400,000 copies in their first year. That’s a lot of books. Not the most ever sold by TSR, but a lot. To give some historical comparison, the 1981 D&D Basic Rules Set sold over 650,000 copies in its first year. To compare to previous editions of AD&D, the 1st edition DMG and PHB together sold over 146,000 copies in 1979. Putting those numbers together makes AD&D 2nd edition look like a solid hit. But it hides a deeper problem.

The 2nd edition of AD&D sold well when it was released. Combined, the Dungeon Master’s Guide and Player’s Handbook sold over 400,000 copies in their first year. That’s a lot of books. Not the most ever sold by TSR, but a lot. To give some historical comparison, the 1981 D&D Basic Rules Set sold over 650,000 copies in its first year. To compare to previous editions of AD&D, the 1st edition DMG and PHB together sold over 146,000 copies in 1979. Putting those numbers together makes AD&D 2nd edition look like a solid hit. But it hides a deeper problem.

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Benjamin Riggs shares some D&D history! This was posted on Facebook and shared with permission.


AD&D 2nd edition didn’t have the legs that AD&D 1st edition did. Combined sales of the 1st edition DMG and PHB actually went up at first, selling over 390,000 in 1980, over 577,000 in 1981, over 452,000 in 1982, and 533,000 in 1983 before finally sliding to just over 234,000 in 1984, at the time when TSR began its first crisis. Meanwhile, the 2nd edition DMG and PHB would never sell more than 200,000 copies in a single year after 1989. In short, 2nd edition wasn’t selling like its predecessor.

But if AD&D 2nd edition looks small in comparison to1st edition, both shrink before the altar of Dungeons & Dragons. Including 1st, 2nd edition, revised 2nd edition, and introductory sets, AD&D sold a total of 4,624,111 corebooks between 1979 and 1998. Meanwhile, D&D sold 5,454,859 units in that same period, the vast bulk of those purchases coming between 1979 and 1983.

TSR could no longer put up the sales numbers it once did. Even D&D, which sold better than AD&D in either iteration, didn’t sell in the 90’s like it did in the 80’s. What had changed? Something changed, but what was it? Was it that Gary Gygax was gone? Had something gone wrong with 2nd edition? Was a rule changed that shouldn’t have been? Was it too complex? Not complex enough? Had RPGs been a fad that faded? Should the AD&D lines be canceled entirely to focus on the historically better-selling D&D?

These numbers should have been an occasion for self-reflection and correction all over TSR.

But they weren’t.

These numbers were left in the offices of upper management. Zeb Cook himself said he never saw any concrete sales numbers for 2nd edition. The decision by management under Lorraine Williams to keep sales numbers like those above restricted to the top of the company must be seen as a mistake. The inability of the game designers to know how their product was selling cut them off from economic feedback on their product. I see those numbers, and what I read is that TSR’s audience bought the 2nd edition books, read them, and just weren’t crazy about them. (Although I myself am quite partial to the rules, as they are what I grew up playing.) But Zeb Cook didn’t know that, so how could he make changes to improve his craft in the future?

Benjamin went on to note his source: "I have a source who sent me a few pages of sales data from TSR. It's primary source material. I don't have everything, but I do have the data contained in the post above." He is currently writing a book on the sale of TSR to Wizards of the Coast.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Even a monster hit like Stranger Things has less reach than a movie like ET did back when it came out (40 million people globally watched Stranger Things, while 120 million Americans alone bought tickets to ET).
Blockbuster movies have a bigger reach than most TV shows. That's still the case - Endgame and Star Wars have a bigger reach than the Big Bang Theory or Game of Thrones.
 

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darjr

I crit!
Stranger Things. Big Bang theory, with several stars playing. Buffy. IT Theory. Futerrama. Community, one of its highest watched episodes, I think. That 70s Show. Not to mention a few very popular recent cartoons that are unashamedly D&D in almost all but name.

Quite a lot more than some side scene in ET and a cartoon aimed at kids on Saturday morning.

I love the cartoon but compared to the past, D&Ds current presence in pop culture dwarfs it.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
The biggest reason why AD&D 2e dropped off in my region is because of Magic-The Incredible Waste of Time and Money came out. Suddenly that sucked all the younger players away and without them we couldn't sustain campaigns. RPGs dropped off to nothing as people flocked to a deck of cards that had no soul and no roleplay possibilities. I just walked away from it all for years and played video games, especially Everquest when it came out until I encountered Pathfinder a few years ago.

This attitude has always bugged me.

Sure, it's common knowledge that the rise of Magic and other CCGs took a huge hit on RPG sales. But that's because, for a lot of people, this game is the AWESOMEST GAME EVER. Pooping on the game because you don't care for it personally is dismissive of others and just plain old sour grapes. Magic succeeded because, like D&D before it, it captured lightning in a bottle with a combination of innovative and fun gameplay, beautiful art and the weird fantasy theme, and yes, addictive & competitive gameplay and collectibility. Magic is still going strong in its third decade.

Don't care for it? Cool. Don't play it. But folks bitching about its mere existence is childish and petty. Magic failed to kill D&D, we're still playing, so what's the problem?

Similar irritating complaints: World of Warcraft and the rise of MMORPGs. The rise of Vampire and "storytelling" games in the 90s. The current rise of "actual play" live-streaming. It's okay if you don't care for any of the above, but to kvetch about it is tiring.
 



Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Storyteller pulled in new players (older, and less exclusively male than the traditional D&D audience of junior-high boys) from the LARP side

With respect, Storyteller largely created the larp side. Live action games before Storyteller were mostly folks running around in fields in the UK with rubber swords, for whom it was as much or more sport than role playing. Storyteller didn't suddenly make these people go, "Hey, I don't want to hit folks with foam rubber! I wanna be emo at them!!1!"* Its "theater style" instead opened up live action playing to people who were not currently involved.



*I jest, to denote the large differences in schools of live-action play in the 1990s, and how the populations were not particularly connected, as they had much different goals in play.
 

Paragon Lost

Terminally Lost
Started gaming at the start of 1978 with DnD and then 1st edition AD&D. One thing that quickly became clear to me back then was though the game was fun, the mechanics always left something to be desired for most of us in Southern California.

We were always adding house rules, clarifying things that were unclear etc. Or looking for different systems as they came out. Whether it was the crazy over the top Arduin Bloody Arduin, or different genre like Traveller. It felt like we were looking for a replacement for the system because DnD just was clunky, restrictive and didn't make a lot of sense mechanically speaking.

I know our groups were playing a lot of Traveller, Runequest, Aftermath, The Fantasy Trip etc by the start of the 1980's. I personally embraced for my own game Palladium Fantasy when it came out because I liked that it had a DnD feel with classes and levels but had a parry/dodge/block system and armor that you had to get through to hurt the player. (personal observation, when DnD 3x came out I was shocked that Kevin Seimbedia didn't sue WotC due to how similiar those combat mechanics were)

By the mid 1980s I'd found GURPS 1st edition and that was all she wrote for what I was running. (most of the time, I also ran alot of Battletech, Starfleet Battles and Twilight 2000 for many years) I still picked up DnD published material but I wasn't running it. I'm a collector at heart and will snag things that interest me even if I'm not playing it. My long winded point, is that by the 1990's there was a lot more competition for gamer money and their was a lot of quality ttrpgs out before Magic the Gathering came out and just destroyed the industry.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've lived on both coasts and in europe since I started tabletop gaming in 1978. Hanging out at gaming shops to meet players to get groups started etc. So yeah this is my memory of how I recall things. It was a slow roll on competition spreading out and becoming a real threat to DnD and anyone who naysays the effect of MtC is fooling themselves, it did a serious damage to the other tabletop games. It was easy to pick up and just play, no GM's, no work before the games etc really in comparison to tabletop rpgs.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
With respect, Storyteller largely created the larp side. Live action games before Storyteller were mostly folks running around in fields in the UK with rubber swords, for whom it was as much or more sport than role playing.
There was some of that on the east coast, too, I've heard.
But the point is, the TT Storyteller crowd consisted both of established TTRPGers who had moved on from D&D and plenty of new players who had played Mind's Eye Theatre versions of the game, first. While, the D&D crowd was mostly established, there was a dearth of new players coming into D&D in the 90s. It was, at times, on the local convention scene, quite stunning. And, it was prettymuch the only time in the hobby's history that most new players coming into TTRPGs weren't coming to it through D&D.

Edit: even then, you couldn't really say that Storyteller had 'bested' D&D, nor even competed with it. M:tG had siphoned away interest from D&D's usual new-player base, while Storyteller had tapped a different potential pool of new players. It was timing and positioning.
 
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Paragon Lost

Terminally Lost
With respect, Storyteller largely created the larp side. Live action games before Storyteller were mostly folks running around in fields in the UK with rubber swords, for whom it was as much or more sport than role playing. Storyteller didn't suddenly make these people go, "Hey, I don't want to hit folks with foam rubber! I wanna be emo at them!!1!"* Its "theater style" instead opened up live action playing to people who were not currently involved.



*I jest, to denote the large differences in schools of live-action play in the 1990s, and how the populations were not particularly connected, as they had much different goals in play.


LARPing existed in some type of form back to the 1960's with the SCA in my opinion. (Shrugs)
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I have a few thoughts on sales numbers

-By 1994, twenty years of D&D, there was a lot more competition in terms of RPGs and computer games than there had been in the period of 1979-1983/85. Although personal computers and PC gaming was on the rise as well during the 80s. <..> There was also a cultural shift; Vampire and to a lesser degree other games were taking things outside of the dungeon.

Very important points.


Perhaps there are larger market forces at work during the 90s across the entire RPG industry?

CCGs were also on the rise and they caught a lot of prospective players' entertainment time and budget.
 

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