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D&D 5E Goliaths WebDM Misses the Mark, but Sparks My Curiosity

Boulder Stance strikes me as too goofy to use, but that's probably because my toddler is going through a Frozen phase and I've see those trolls too many times recently. That said, from a mechanics standpoint I don't think I'd be excited about it either. You have to give up all offense and almost all maneuver for a so-so suite of defensive buffs. Plus turtling seems kind of counter to the fluff.

What about just giving up movement? Something like they are rooting themselves to the earth. Give 'em some defensive buffs but let them keep swinging away. That's some cool stand stand shizz, which appeals to me more than sticking my head in the sand.

Can we call Giant Limb something else? I'm picturing Goliaths with one outsized giant arm and one Deadpool baby arm.

The rest seems fine. Might be OP, but I'd want to see it action.

Edit I didn't notice the increased base move. That might be too much all at once.
 

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Goliaths are big strong people who could not make it with other giants. Goliaths are the gentle giants created so your little brother could play a giant. If goliaths are reclusive, why are so many hanging out with adventuring parties?
Same reasons any other race has adventurers.
I would make a point that the Goliath's lore is actually prety dark by RAW. They are a warrior culture in which might makes right, and they abandon the weak and sick to die. In fact, they often seek out things that can kill them while they are young, so that they do not feel the infirmities of age.

That's really dark. And about the only Lore they have. So, when you cut that out you have "big and strong and live in mountains" which isn't really enough to grab onto and make a culture out of.

Mechanically that sounds fine.

Lore is the hard part.
It’s really easy to just tone down the “leave the weak and sick to die” stuff. Also, they aren’t actually a “might makes right” culture IIRC. But even if they are, just...make them not.

Nothing about valuing competition, fair play, and the good of the group, requires the other stuff. 🤷‍♂️
 

Ok, so reasons people like Goliaths.

Note that some of these reasons are about what they're not - but those sort of reasons are really important when it comes down to it, because people's red lines on what they don't want to play tend to be very strong in TT RPGs.

1. They fit the "Big Strong Race" archetype pretty much perfectly.

Not only are they one of the largest playable D&D races (if not the largest - 8' tall and 340lbs is the top of the range given, but we could easily envision one 9'+ if we allow 7' humans and so on), but they're always drawn as large and perfectly formed, and their mechanics and lore completely support this fantasy, rather than veering off in some other weird direction, as most large races do (Minotaurs and Firbolgs, for example, have odd mechanics and flavour).

2. They're not a "beast race"/furry.

This might seem like an odd reason, but post-2E, most larger races in D&D have been animal-people or monster-people of various varieties, and a lot of players, in my experience, just aren't into that. For every player who loves the idea of playing Dragonborn or a Minotaur, for example, there's one who won't even consider it.

They're also not a robot. Robots have, I think, a broader appeal and create fewer raised eyebrows than beast-people, but still a lot of players would rather not be a robot.

3. They're fully humanoid/conventionally attractive.

@Paul Farquhar mentions he'd be excited if they were less humanoid, with a more "Hulk"-like physique, and I'm sure some would agree (I would, for example) - but many others would disagree. A lot of people want to play a tall attractive muscle-y Barbarian-type (and have it mechanically supported, which humans don't really, and there are some more complex issues around extremes of size and D&D races which are a whole other discussion - in short players are strangely reluctant to play a 7'2" or 3'4" human even though such people exist when other races which are naturally those sizes do).

Half-Orcs have the distinct problem that unless you basically say "I appear to be not be a Half-Orc", they're not conventionally attractive, with the typical tusks and so on. They may be "hot" or pretty cool-looking, but it's a lot more of a thing to be be-tusked and greenish than it is to have "kewl patternz" in monochrome on your skin.

4. +2 STR, +1 CON.

Not the only race with it, but the only conventionally attractive one (soz Mountain Dwarves, but some people think you're short and fat, unfair I know).

5. Backstory is pretty simple/limited, meaning it doesn't dominate the character, nor is likely to become an issue in a campaign or whatever.

Again with a lot of races, especially big/strong ones, there's some kind of serious backstory to them that means you can't just be who you want to be, or not easily, because you're dragging baggage. We've had DMs on here saying stuff about how they give Half-Orc PCs an extremely hard time, and thinking this is cool/normal.

The claims that the backstory is "very dark" are obviously laughable exaggeration, and at odds with the wide popularity of fictionalized portrayals of the Spartans and the like, who were known for the exact same stuff and worse (non-fictional Spartans were far, far, far worse, of course), and it's not exactly uncommon in many ancient cultures to practice exposure (there's a reason it has a one-word name). Their philosophy is basically just a straightforward spin on "rugged individualism", and whilst that's not everyone's cup of tea, it's a hugely common one, especially in the US, and there's a reason people unironically like Ron Swanson. Plus it's exactly how many/most PCs operate anyway - attempting to be heroic, acting more as individuals than part of society (part of the PC group, sure, part of society? Rarely, in my experience - there's a reason Murderhobo is a thing, and even when it's turned down to Goldhobo or Justicehobo or the like...).

6. Solid mechanics.

Not worth dwelling on, and I've already mentioned that their mechanics are thematically spot-on to "big strong guys", in multiple ways, and perfectly suited to being STR-based melee combatants, but all their mechanics are solid and work decently and have some real-game applicability, even if you don't routinely check encumbrance, the boost there lets them move stuff that would take several normal adventurers. Mountain Born is the least useful but thematically appropriate. Sure, people will wish they had Darkvision, but such is life.

7. They actually have rules and are in 5E. Something that is not true of say, Half-Giants or Half-Ogres.

I hope this makes it all make a big more sense to those who "don't get it".

Personally, do I like them? No, they're kinda flexing gym-bunny mountain creeps, but I don't like Ron Swanson either (though the character is hysterical). Also one thing I strongly agree with @Paul Farquhar on is that they have a dumb name. A really dumb name. But some aging people (including one of my players) watched the Gargoyles cartoon back in the day and think Goliath is an awesome name, not a lame and weirdly Biblical one. I can think of at least 5 PC races with dumber names off the top of my head, though. But I can understand why people would like them.
 

add a little druidic magic

I give them shamans who are all about "vision" and foresight who lead the tribes. Seeing things both far off both because of the altitude they occupy as well as their spiritual "vision" seeing far.

It took me a while to get into Goliaths honestly, but once I did, I really came to like them. Some of my favorite PC's have been Goliaths.
 

Boulder Stance strikes me as too goofy to use, but that's probably because my toddler is going through a Frozen phase and I've see those trolls too many times recently. That said, from a mechanics standpoint I don't think I'd be excited about it either. You have to give up all offense and almost all maneuver for a so-so suite of defensive buffs. Plus turtling seems kind of counter to the fluff.
Hey, its the Gorons' way of quickly roll down a mountain! :p and yes, I intend to create a feat that allows to deal some damage with their stone spurs while rolling through an enemy's space.
 

Yeah, I have some stuff roughed out. This is for Goliaths as-is. not expanded to be descended form all manner of giants. This is an off the cuff first draft, criticism welcome...

A thousand years ago there was a secret war, a war for Faerun's coldest and most isolated mountain peaks. Frost Giants, pushed out of lower mountain ranges by expanding human empires, battled against the Oni and their minions for control of of the highest peaks. The Frost Giants were winning until the the Oni struck an awful deal with a creature from the Abyss. The Oni were granted the power to create a new race, blended from their Frost Giant and human captives, a race intended to be their foot soldiers in the ongoing conflict - these were the first Goliaths. Thousand of Goliaths died fighting against the Frost Giants, and from peak to peak and across vast glaciers they pushed the giants back. But the Goliaths were not content to be slave soldiers, and plotted rebellion. On the eve of the final battle they rebelled and fled the fortress of the Oni. Those Oni, left without an army, were hunted down and massacred by the Frost giants. The Oni will never forgive the Goliaths their betrayal, and the Frost Giants will never forgive their very creation, so the Goliaths live a fraught life in the high peaks, eking out survival in the harshest of environments and fighting an endless vendetta against their two bitter foes,

I like it, very fun. Also, I'm a bit of a sucker for races who are fighting more powerful enemies.

Same reasons any other race has adventurers.

It’s really easy to just tone down the “leave the weak and sick to die” stuff. Also, they aren’t actually a “might makes right” culture IIRC. But even if they are, just...make them not.

Nothing about valuing competition, fair play, and the good of the group, requires the other stuff. 🤷‍♂️

You are right that nothing about the last part requires the first two.

But, add in the "leave the weak to die" (which includes wise and elderly leaders) and the fact that their competitions are all strength based athletic competitions, then you quickly get into shows of martial prowess, and being lead by the biggest and toughest because they are the biggest and toughest.

Again, it is easy to change, but that does seem to be the baseline they were given.
 

I like it, very fun. Also, I'm a bit of a sucker for races who are fighting more powerful enemies.



You are right that nothing about the last part requires the first two.

But, add in the "leave the weak to die" (which includes wise and elderly leaders) and the fact that their competitions are all strength based athletic competitions, then you quickly get into shows of martial prowess, and being lead by the biggest and toughest because they are the biggest and toughest.

Again, it is easy to change, but that does seem to be the baseline they were given.
That’s an extrapolation, though, and not a necessary one.

And they don’t exactly yeet the old down the mountainside once they hit a certain age.

And there is nothing in their writeup that suggests that their leaders are chosen by success in athletic contest or contest of any other kind. More likely, it’s an elder who is still able to keep up and contribute in some tribes, the tribe’s shaman in others, the warleader in others, the most well spoken and successful in negotiations at tradesmeets in others, etc.

Now, that is something they could stand to actually go into in a writeup, but 5e is pretty light on the fantasy chains of command.
 

The claims that the backstory is "very dark" are obviously laughable exaggeration, and at odds with the wide popularity of fictionalized portrayals of the Spartans and the like, who were known for the exact same stuff and worse (non-fictional Spartans were far, far, far worse, of course), and it's not exactly uncommon in many ancient cultures to practice exposure (there's a reason it has a one-word name). Their philosophy is basically just a straightforward spin on "rugged individualism", and whilst that's not everyone's cup of tea, it's a hugely common one, especially in the US, and there's a reason people unironically like Ron Swanson. Plus it's exactly how many/most PCs operate anyway - attempting to be heroic, acting more as individuals than part of society (part of the PC group, sure, part of society? Rarely, in my experience - there's a reason Murderhobo is a thing, and even when it's turned down to Goldhobo or Justicehobo or the like...).

I'm not sure how you can say "laughable exaggerations", especially since claiming "but fictional Sparta and ancients cultures did it too" misses a large point. Those are very dark settings as well.

If you are too weak, you are left behind to die. And, think about what "too weak" likely means. Using standard array and taking the lowest, you've got a 10 str and double carrying capacity, along with prof in athletics. Meaning that they likely are killing off Goliaths who are as strong as humans, or Goliaths who are born who are not "perfect specimens". And, despite it being done for centuries, killing and abandoning the weakest members of society is a very dark tone to start with.

And, if you are a great warrior, one who has served the tribe well for decades, you start looking for something to kill you. Because you have reached your prime. You now seek death, because otherwise you will grow weaker and die a pathetic death instead of a prideful one in a battle. Again, very common trope, lots of people who might have believed that back in ancient cultures. Still a very dark tone to set, that the warrior in his prime begins to seek out death, because he wishes to die in his prime.
 

I'm not sure how you can say "laughable exaggerations", especially since claiming "but fictional Sparta and ancients cultures did it too" misses a large point. Those are very dark settings as well.

If you are too weak, you are left behind to die. And, think about what "too weak" likely means. Using standard array and taking the lowest, you've got a 10 str and double carrying capacity, along with prof in athletics. Meaning that they likely are killing off Goliaths who are as strong as humans, or Goliaths who are born who are not "perfect specimens". And, despite it being done for centuries, killing and abandoning the weakest members of society is a very dark tone to start with.
There again, you’re going past the text to a darker place than what it actually presents. There is nothing about abandoning people who aren’t “perfect specimens” at birth. That’s literally just something you’re adding to it all on your own.

And again, they don’t kill them off. They leave them behind. I doubt they leave them naked and weaponless.

Being too badly injured to keep up, or for the tribe to wait for you to heal, is a likely source of adventuring backgrounds.
 

There again, you’re going past the text to a darker place than what it actually presents. There is nothing about abandoning people who aren’t “perfect specimens” at birth. That’s literally just something you’re adding to it all on your own.

And again, they don’t kill them off. They leave them behind. I doubt they leave them naked and weaponless.

Being too badly injured to keep up, or for the tribe to wait for you to heal, is a likely source of adventuring backgrounds.

I mean, leaving people behind who are too weak to keep up with the tribe, is essentially a death sentence. If you are too week to keep up, you're probably too weak to survive alone.
 

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