D&D 5E Boop

[Fenris-77]

It was more about this specific thread and the homebrew thread. There are a lot of ideas floating around, and whole host of ranges, effects and whatever - most of them not LoS or whatever. Without some core design principles and a focus on elegant design, the class (in its current ENW iteration) risks turning into an unplayable potpourri. I was just advocating for attention to the big picture and perhaps identifying some macro design elements that could help steady the ship.

 

[Garthanos]

Any class that cast spells or can use ranged weapons is going to involve precise distances, that's just 5e, and, obviously, every class.

I bet there are so many ways Darkness potentially mobile and Grease and Thunder Wave and Fireball willing to bet we could create wizards that were incredibly effective who had huge amounts of where is everything at every round and every turn of every fight. Player choices drive how much of it is in the game but it certainly wasnt removed

 

[Tony Vargas]

Without some core design principles and a focus on elegant design, the class (in its current ENW iteration) risks turning into an unplayable potpourri

Just the usual perils of amateur design on an open forum, sounds like.

Which is why a good, official version is so desireable, and, really, all the more reason to have put it in the PH, originally.

 

[Garthanos]

It's not about holding the class to a different standard, it's about ensuring that it meets the basic standards of 5e design, which means being playable both on and off a grid.

If it has to be better at that than a wizard with a selection of zones like Darkness (potentially moving area of effect) and Grease which doesn't require concentration and other area effects like Thunder Wave which pushes enemies and various others then I think you may be applying a different standard

The interesting thing is a game can be too simple for my taste and yet not objectively simple in comparison to most other games.

 

[Garthanos]

Which is why a good, official version is so desireable, and, really, all the more reason to have put it in the PH, originally.

That idea has been well and thoroughly sacrificed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The interesting thing is a game can be too simple for my taste and yet not objectively simple in comparison to most other games.

There's a subtle, presumably very subjective, line between simple and simplistic, and a system doesn't always cross it at anywhere near the same objective degree of complexity....

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It’s interesting that the fighter is barely behind the bard, here.

I can definitely see how it could be done, and I’d absolutely love to make some variant features for the fighter that gear it more toward support and leadership, perhaps even gaining followers again. I mean, noble/knight background can do it, why not a class feature?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It’s interesting that the fighter is barely behind the bard, here.

I can definitely see how it could be done, and I’d absolutely love to make some variant features for the fighter that gear it more toward support and leadership, perhaps even gaining followers again. I mean, noble/knight background can do it, why not a class feature?

Actually it would be super easy.

Replace the Proficiencies block with slightly more limited armor and weapon set, and gain a skill and a tool.

Replace the Second Wind with a similar effect that you can use on an ally.

Replace the Action Surge with the ability to grant an action to an ally. Limit as necessary. Alternatively, swap it with the ability to grant an attack when you make an attack, x/short rest.
Or even get weird, and swap in an ability to grant extra bonus actions and reactions.

Indomitable becomes an ability to boost an ally’s save, or a bonus to saves and ability checks with that you’re proficient in within 10ft of you. level 9 is high enough, if someone MCs to get this, good for them.

3rd and 4th extra attacks are replaced with group buffs when you take the attack or help action or use an action to cast a spell or use a special ability gained from your levels in this class.

Add

A couple leader-oriented fighting styles, and the UA variant ones

A BM maneuver where you make an attack that only deals your superiority die in damage on a hit, and grants an ally an attack without costing your BA.

More support Manuevers.

At level 5, gain the Paragon of Martial Prowess feature. You gain 1 loyal follower, using stats specially designed for this. You gain an additional follower at level 9, 11, 13, 17, and 20. Most of your followers would be retainer types, and wouldn’t even adventure with you. Instead, they keep your home, which gives certain minor benefits to the whole party when the group spends 1 week or more resting and spending downtime there.
None of the follower stats make for someone you want to bring into danger often. They’re there for flavor, and to make adventuring life a little easy in subtle ways like carrying your gear and are more of an interaction and exploration benefit.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It’s interesting that the fighter is barely behind the bard, here.

While the Fighter has two strikes against it so far, in the form of sub-classes, I suppose that's not the same thing as being a template or chassis.

The problems I see with it is that the fighter chassis has, perhaps, the least versatility of any in the PH, and is right at the bottom in terms of resources, too, both of which seem, to me, to be vital to effective support. The demand for support contributions is not there every round, round after round. Sometimes the need is dire and the effect must be powerful to be of use, sometimes there's a golden opportunity - other times, there may be little call for such help.

The plus side is obvious, the fighter is the grand elder of non-casting classes, it's iconic.


And, of course, to be completely cynical for a moment, nothing restricts respondents to those who /want/ to see homebrew warlord designs succeed....

 

[doctorbadwolf]

While the Fighter has two strikes against it so far, in the form of sub-classes, I suppose that's not the same thing as being a template or chassis.

The problems I see with it is that the fighter chassis has, perhaps, the least versatility of any in the PH, and is right at the bottom in terms of resources, too, both of which seem, to me, to be vital to effective support. The demand for support contributions is not there every round, round after round. Sometimes the need is dire and the effect must be powerful to be of use, sometimes there's a golden opportunity - other times, there may be little call for such help.

The plus side is obvious, the fighter is the grand elder of non-casting classes, it's iconic.


And, of course, to be completely cynical for a moment, nothing restricts respondents to those who /want/ to see homebrew warlord designs succeed....

I’m not sure what any of this even means. The subclasses would just add more support to the base class, not interfere, while the more offensive subs would steer it more toward An offense/support split.

and replacing the features with similarly themed and structured features that provide support wouldn’t be hard, as I’ve shown.