D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

[HarbingerX]

i think people like hating Tolkien like some intellectual literary snobs like saying Shakespeare isn’t that good. They were both geniuses. When really people should be just admitting they are ready to try something different rather than putting down or insulting the works of Shakespeare, Tolkien, and others.

From a D&D perspective, the main complaint I have with Tolkien is that is was so wildly successful that Middle-Earth became the standard fantasy world type, pushing aside other styles. That's why is such a breath of fresh air whenever you read a story or a D&D setting that's not 'standard fantasy'.

Greyhawk itself as a setting is a pastiche reflecting a lot of different tropes of european fantasy. I always like that whatever type of feel I want, I can usually find a country that fits my needs.

 

[jayoungr]

From a D&D perspective, the main complaint I have with Tolkien is that is was so wildly successful that Middle-Earth became the standard fantasy world type, pushing aside other styles. That's why is such a breath of fresh air whenever you read a story or a D&D setting that's not 'standard fantasy'.

Thing is, D&D isn't actually much like Tolkien at all. To the degree that when a company did want to make D&D resemble Tolkien (i.e., when writing Adventures in Middle-Earth), they had to modify it heavily.

 

[HarbingerX]

Thing is, D&D isn't actually much like Tolkien at all. To the degree that when a company did want to make D&D resemble Tolkien (i.e., when writing Adventures in Middle-Earth), they had to modify it heavily.

Yes, but everyone expected Elves and Dwarves to be like those from Middle-Earth and Hobbits to exist. Not to mention 1e Rangers looking suspiciously like Aragorn. Magic thankfully didn't end up working like Middle-Earth because it wouldn't be fun.

 

[Anoth]

Thing is, D&D isn't actually much like Tolkien at all. To the degree that when a company did want to make D&D resemble Tolkien (i.e., when writing Adventures in Middle-Earth), they had to modify it heavily.

i agree with you and I keep telling people that. But when I do I get this dumbfounds stare of bewilderment and confusion like I told someone that Santa Claus isn’t real. And I wonder how much they really know Tolkien’s work because other than medieval like setting greyhawk and faerun are nothing like middle earth. The factions and motivations are quite different. The flow of magic and the cultures are quite different. The moral concerns of the major npc’s and nations are quite different. What they have in common is people fight with sword and Bows.

 

[jayoungr]

Yes, but everyone expected Elves and Dwarves to be like those from Middle-Earth

Dwarves, maybe, but D&D Elves are very different from Tolkien elves. The only similarities I can see are that they are physically attractive and come in "magical" and "woodcrafty" variants; beyond that, there isn't much resemblance.

 

[Alzrius]

Not to mention 1e Rangers looking suspiciously like Aragorn.

Spellcasting notwithstanding.

 

[billd91]

So GH is all about S&S and low- rather than high-fantasy - but we have to stick to tradition=JRRT PC races (+ gnomes, because , , . ?).

In Greyhawk's case, the joint is pretty lousy with gnomes. They're reasonably widespread and well-represented which suggests, at least to me, that Gygax and the others who had the most input on the earliest iterations had a more distinctive view of gnomes than many gamers who followed. So, yeah, gnomes.

There's no real basis for suggesting that GH villagers would reject dragonborn as monstrous and dangerous because . . . all dragons are evil? (Except the good ones?) The setting will support whatever lore about dragonborn is desired to make them a fun race to play.

More like because Greyhawk, for the most part, doesn't give off a vibe like the Mos Eisley cantina where everyone's blasé about whatever creature walks through the door and orders a drink.

My personal preference is to not go full on Mos Eisley cantina in my D&D games. It makes the exotic choices decidedly less exotic - and that's kind of boring. My own personal preference is to not include dragonborn in the Greyhawk I run either, but I fully admit that's a personal thing. The D&D of my upbringing was mainly pre-draconic humanoids, with the exception of Dragonlance where they had a particular role to play in the setting.

 

[billd91]

Dwarves, maybe, but D&D Elves are very different from Tolkien elves. The only similarities I can see are that they are physically attractive and come in "magical" and "woodcrafty" variants; beyond that, there isn't much resemblance.

I would argue there's quite a bit of resemblance. Elven chain, elven boots, elven cloaks - all from D&D elven culture and all based on LotR. Mechanical advantages with certain kinds of weaponry to encourage them to play according to a particular style that fits in with elves as portrayed in LotR. Silent movement and good night vision in various iterations, both work in line with LotR. Issues around sleeping also fits in with the way Legolas is portrayed in LotR.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

For a dragonborn if played proper you should take some reptilian traits, e.g. warm up in the sun,

Dragons are not cold blooded. Niether are dinosaurs, so Saurials shouldn't be either.

What are dragons like? Well, if your read The Hobbit, Smaug is basically an egotistical super-avaricious human in a massive scaly flying firebreathing body.

So, no reason why dragonborn should be particularly alien, beyond their appearance.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

OK my Storyteller/GM says my vampire PC can eat kenders without losing points of Humanity.

I am afair anybody doesn't like neither Tokien nor Shaskepeare because..... how to say it softly? Maybe those would be fans of different sport teams.

If Tolkien wasn't a very big influence on D&D creators he has been for lots of players.

Dwarfs have been popular because they were like a mixture of vikings and knights of the round table but with Sancho Panza's bodies. And elves are closest to ideal to human perfection but with lower strongh. Too perfect and they become boring and annoying Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

Tielflings were the Rose Mary's children, tainted because their ancestors were members of a evil cult or grandma asked help to the wrong cunning folk. Dragonborns were the product of spellcasters trying to create the perfect soldier. When you really like something and want to add you to your game, then you don't respect the canon. Any excuse will work. Maybe there rare in the past times, but after they started to marry and repopulate. Dragonborns are like wearing a superhero or kaiju costume in Halloween. The are in the perfect middle between misunderstood and majestic mythological creature, too strange for the usual humanoids, too honorable to be a simple monster. Dragonborns are like totem warriors, as power rangers without armours.