Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Fenris-77]

Again, "the existence of dawn does not disprove the difference between day and night."

If you take one of those "blurry" genres and ask, "Which parts feel like fantasy and which parts feel like sci-fi?" I think most of us would come up with similar lists.

And, yes, there are probably still elements that would be hard to put in one list or the other. I refer you to the aphorism two paragraphs up.

Well, my point was more that those elements happily and coherently coexist within the same fiction, and the reason they do so is they share a lot of the same elements. I'm not suggesting that there aren't two genres, only that those genres aren't as separate as some people would like to think.

 

[Jd Smith1]

1e was kitchen sink as well.

Not for the first few years, but yeah, it degraded, particularly as Gygax lost creative control. That's why I quit using it in '81.

 

[Jd Smith1]

That's what people in the business cal an opinion.

Really? Gosh.

 

[Maxperson]

Not for the first few years, but yeah, it degraded, particularly as Gygax lost creative control. That's why I quit using it in '81.

It was kitchen sink from the get go. The DMG had rules for gunpowder, westerns, sci-fi and more. It left most of the details to the DM, but the game was designed to include pretty much everything.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Not for the first few years, but yeah, it degraded, particularly as Gygax lost creative control. That's why I quit using it in '81.

Mind Flayers and Aboleths came after gygax lost creative control?

 

[Maxperson]

Mind Flayers and Aboleths came after gygax lost creative control?

He lost control in 1985, not 1981. What came out in 1981, during Gygax's control, was the Fiend Folio with its very, very psychic Gith.

 

[Jd Smith1]

It was kitchen sink from the get go. The DMG had rules for gunpowder, westerns, sci-fi and more. It left most of the details to the DM, but the game was designed to include pretty much everything.

Not really. A couple pages in the DMG doesn't make a kitchen sink game. It's the endless series of
additional pointless classes, spells, monsters, and so forth, instead of refining rules systems, and creating campaigns & settings of substance and scope. Innovation is not a trait of the kitchen sink game, or the D&D series.

It's the simple, easy, bland mainstream sitcom of RPGs.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not for the first few years, but yeah, it degraded, particularly as Gygax lost creative control. That's why I quit using it in '81.

It was very much kitchen sink under Gygax's watch - he was unashamedly and openly influenced by Weird Tales magazine, Lovecraft, Marion Zimmer Bradly, Clark Ashton Smith and myths an legends from a myriad of different cultures.

It was Gygax who wrote Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Dungeonland and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror.

It's probably the inclusiveness that made it so successful compared to other RPGs - pretty much anyone could find an element that they could latch onto and identify with.

It's the simple, easy, bland mainstream sitcom of RPGs.

Yup, and the reason they make those is they are massively popular.

 

[Maxperson]

It was very much kitchen sink under Gygax's watch - he was unashamedly and openly influenced by Weird Tales magazine, Lovecraft, Marion Zimmer Bradly, Clark Ashton Smith and myths an legends from a myriad of different cultures.

It was Gygax who wrote Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Dungeonland and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror.

It's probably the inclusiveness that made it so successful compared to other RPGs - pretty much anyone could find an element that they could latch onto and identify with.

Yup, and the reason they make those is they are massively popular.

And while they weren't official, the myriad of Dragon Articles adding to the game also showed that Gygax was committed to the 1e kitchen sink approach.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

And while they weren't official, all the myriad of Dragon Articles adding to the game also showed that Gygax was committed to the 1e kitchen sink approach.

Yup. If anything, those who took over we less well read, and made D&D more about itself. The oddball cross-genre stuff is something I miss from the Gygax days.