D&D 5E D&D Mythic Odysseys of Theros Previews!

Mythic Odysseys of Theros may have been delayed until the end of July for most of us, but Fantasy Grounds has revealed some (undoubtedly specially approved) previews for us to look at in the meantime!

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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Sword Coast Adventurers Guide was released in Q4 2015, Xanathar's was released in Q4 2017, a full two years later. Also, the urge to reprint elements that are not vital to, say, a Setting are significantly reduced now that D&D Beyond is fully operational with a la carte features. No Forge, Order, & Grave reprints in Theros, for example.

I hadn't considered that. When did D&D Beyond implement a-la cart features? I know DDB went online in August 2017, and Xanathar's came out later that year. I would imagine they still included reprints in Xanathar's even if a la carte was available, as they wouldn't have been sure if DDB would catch on in the right way and needed to hedge their bets.

That said, it should be noted that DDB is owned by Wikia, not Hasbro, so while WotC and Curse closely coordinate for digital book releases, there could be rationales to still include reprints, if Hasbro doesn't want to rely on people using another company's platform for their game.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I hadn't considered that. When did D&D Beyond implement a-la cart features? I know DDB went online in August 2017, and Xanathar's came out later that year. I would imagine they still included reprints in Xanathar's even if a la carte was available, as they wouldn't have been sure if DDB would catch on in the right way and needed to hedge their bets.

That said, it should be noted that DDB is owned by Wikia, not Hasbro, so while WotC and Curse closely coordinate for digital book releases, there could be rationales to still include reprints, if Hasbro doesn't want to rely on people using another company's platform for their game.

I'm not sure when a la carte was introduced, but there haven't been any Subclass reprints in close to three years now. Race options in Setting books, but no Subclass reprints. I don't think that is a coincidence.
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
I agree with most of this post, just have a few comments.

Yup, no reprint for Artillerist or Battle Smith.
Probably right. Armorer kinda splits the difference between the two, while Alchemist is wholly different from the more combat-focused subclasses.

A slightly revised - if only with an extended equipment list - version of the Battle Rager is due.


Disagree. I think WotC see setting books as a different kind of thing, and will reprint subclasses from those books quite quickly - they did with swashbuckler.

Order reprint pretty certain in my opinion - see my earlier comment. That goes for Circle of Spores and Oath of Glory too.
I think Parmandur may be onto something about reprints, though. I was considering the race reprints, but racial options are much more important to setting or game identity that subclass options.

I think this will be a whole chapter, not just ranger.

Yeah, me too. I just wanted to call out to it here. But I imagine it'll be either spread throughout with the new subclasses or it'll be listed on its own with the subclasses a separate chapter.

I'm not sure that Wildemont content is likey to be reprinted as it is 3rd party. It would require the spells reprinted as well.

While Mercer didn't take resources off of other WotC projects like Theros to make Wildemount, it's not 3rd Party. This is a 1st Party book deal negotiated with a 3rd Party. You can see it more like Spider-Man in the MCU, and the deals Disney had to make with Sony to make it happen. Is Civil War a 3rd Party Marvel movie? Is Spider-Man: Homecoming one? I'd say no to both, but I would say Venom is 3rd Party. Similarly, Exandria as an IP is owned by Mercer, and he's worked out deals with Green Ronin (Tal'Dorei) and WotC (Wildemount), but the mechanical content in Wildemount is owned by WotC. It's why he can use the 4e Deity names in Wildemount but not in Tal'Dorei, and why conversely he can call his Draconia-descendant Dragonborn "Draconians" in Tal'Dorei but has to call them "Draconbloods" in Wildemount - because "Draconian" has a specific brand identity to WotC that, per Dragonlance, does not match what Mercer has in Exandria.

To that end, while Dunamancy as a concept is very much a Mercer thing, Graviturgy and Chronurgy are broader ideas than just Critial Role (Gravity Mage and Time Wizard in various fantasy IPs). I could easily see these and their unique spells being reprinted in the future, I just don't think it'll happen in the same year the Wildemount book came out (likewise for any content from Theros) - ASSUMING reprints of class options are still a thing in WotC-land. It could be a changed policy. Maybe we got upset about reprints enough that they don't plan on doing it?


I'm not sure when a la carte was introduced, but there haven't been any Subclass reprints in close to three years now. Race options in Setting books, but no Subclass reprints. I don't think that is a coincidence.

This is in discussion to both you and Paul Farquhar - I'm not really sure about which side I'd fall on this front. But I think there's something to be said about reprints that we haven't touched on yet.

I originally sparked this question because Theros ended up not reprinting Forge and Grave Domains. There's a good possibility that the reason for this is that Theros, Wildemount, Eberron, Ravnica, and any other settings, they can reliably assume you have at least one or more of the splatbooks in addition to the core rules. Yes, Wildemount reprinted content from VGM AND MTF, but notice that they reprinted from both of those, not just one.

If I were a DM wanting to limit sourcebooks in a non-AL game set in a published setting, I'd probably allow Core+Setting+1. This is as opposed to AL where Core+1 is the rules of the game for character creation. Therefore, any FR sourcebook MUST reprint content that is necessary for the story it wants to tell, because AL will prevent the player from using both those options and Xanathar's, etc. But other settings do not have that limitation. And if I was going to approve an additional book to the PHB for characters? It would probably have to be Xanathar's Guide. The other two have races, but races are much more likely to show up in the setting book if needed. But Xanathar's Guide is sort of a BIG DEAL expansion to the game options. It's sort of in a different category than VGM or MTF.

This is also why I'm unsure about a Xanathar's 2. Can we assume that it'll hold a similar important niche in the game to Xanathar's Guide? Can we assume that games will be Core + X1 + X2 + Setting book? I'm unsure. But MOT certainly seems to assume you've got XGE, as does GGR.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I think Parmandur may be onto something about reprints, though. I was considering the race reprints, but racial options are much more important to setting or game identity that subclass options.

You can't do Theros without Minotaurs or Merfolk (Triton's), but worship the god of the Forge? Take the Knowledge domain, or the Forge domain if you have the relevant book. Pretty big difference, for sure.

I wonder if, in whatever final form we see it, the variant features will be spread around or consolidated as one section of the book...
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
You can't do Theros without Minotaurs or Merfolk (Triton's), but worship the god of the Forge? Take the Knowledge domain, or the Forge domain if you have the relevant book. Pretty big difference, for sure.

I wonder if, in whatever final form we see it, the variant features will be spread around or consolidated as one section of the book...
Yeah, I was thinking about that too, looking back at the pantheons in the PHB.

The Greek Pantheon gives Knowledge to Hephaestus, and it's generally used to represent both intelligence scholarly deities and skillful/technical/crafty deities. But the Forge Domain does it better for Vulcan-like gods (not just fire gods, of course - it's a good one for Thor in the Norse Pantheon too, for example, in addition to Tempest).

The Egyptian Pantheon has a bunch of deities with the Death Domain from the DMG, and it's good we have that, since Hadal deities are pretty common regardless of setting. But when you have a setting like the Egyptian/Molhurandi gods, or you have deities like Wee Jas or the Raven Queen, the Grave Domain works great for those less-evil-more-mourning death gods. But it's not necessary if you HAVE to get buy. Cleric already has the most options of any class, followed closely by Wizard.

Races are far more identity-makers of a setting than classes are. Sure, Artificer is critical for Eberron, but I could see entire games in the world ignoring it easily. But how easy would it be to adventure in Sharn without running into Warforged or Shifters among the masses?

Definitely hear you on all this.
 

I think Parmandur may be onto something about reprints, though. I
I think the idea is wrong. Here is my view: WotC still supports players who do not use digital. It helps WotC sell books if they scatter player options across numerous books, but it becomes very inconvenient for players to have the information scattered across lots of heavy books. We usually play in a local pub, so lugging lots of heavy books to the game isn't really on, and their internet connection is unreliable.

So, I see consolidation of player options being a major reason for bringing out the new book, and I expect it to include reprints of the majority of player facing options that are not in the core books or Xanathar's.
 

Ravenbrook

Explorer
Does anyone know of any adventures with a Greek style theme that could be converted to Theros. Doesn’t matter if it’s 5e or even d&d. I’m not sure any of the Paizo APs fit.
Do you mean like Fate of the Oracle - A Greek Adventure for 5e? It's by Arcana Games who also made Arkadia.
 

TheSword

Legend
Do you mean like Fate of the Oracle - A Greek Adventure for 5e? It's by Arcana Games who also made Arkadia.
Odyssey of the Dragonlords should fit the bill!

Then again, I'm pretty sure most AP from 5e can be converted to greek style if you add 120% more colonnades and white stones and a dash of bada** helms. Bonus points for holding a scimitar on the wrong side (kopis :p )

Hell, I'm currently imagining the Realms in greco-roman style, and strangely enough, they seem to make more sense than before (walking gods, large city states, important seafaring, demigod-level hero under every stone)

That sound good... I looked at Oddesey of the Dragon lords and it sounds a bit too /pretty epic for low level characters ... maybe I’ll combine the two.

It seems like there are some really high quality ancient Greek products out there that could potentially combined.
 
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Ravenbrook

Explorer
I personally don't need naked satyr art, but if you need it I'm sure Google can provide.
This should fit the bill. It's by Giovanni Battista Tiepolo (c. 1750). Depicted is an entire satyr family, including a satyress and a satyr kid:
unnamed.jpg

Tiepolo's son, Giandomenico, created this rather unusual grouping. I don't know how a satyr and a centauress can have a satyr kid together, unless the centauress is the step-mom or something like that. Maybe it's just the will of the gods:
Tiepolo-Giandomenico-Satyr-&-Centauress-wash-Met.jpg
 

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