D&D 5E New Interactive DPR Visualization Tool

[Chryssis]

Hey esker really like it. three things for debugging when you get around to it.
1. seems Booming blade has no +dmg effect if there is no class 2 "other full caster" of at least lvl1. i tested BB with lhs fighter 4 rhs paladin 4 and rhs fighter 4 lhs fighter 4. no other settings changed, both scenarios there is no change selecting BB on either RHS or LHS. if you change to a dual wield build and select BB it does however drop the dmg.
2. rhs class 3 must be set to mirror,, any other setting results in an error.
3. Greataxe is not benefiting from GWM calculation as it is not listed as heavy weapon

cheers,

 

[Esker]

Hey esker really like it. three things for debugging when you get around to it.
1. seems Booming blade has no +dmg effect. i tested BB with lhs fighter 4 rhs paladin 4 and rhs fighter 4 lhs fighter 4. no other settings changed, both scenarios there is no change selecting BB on either RHS or LHS. if you change to a dual wield build and select BB it does however drop the dmg.
2. rhs class 3 must be set to mirror,, any other setting results in an error.
3. Greataxe is not benefiting from GWM calculation as it is not listed as heavy weapon

cheers,

That behavior for BB is expected if character level is 4; it doesn't do anything until level 5 when it scales, since I'm not modeling the movement rider (though it would be easy enough to add it with a slider setting the chance that it triggers).

Thanks for catching the greataxe issue; I'll fix that.

It's just class 3 on the right that's throwing an error if it's not set to mirror? Probably a typo somewhere; I'll check it out.

Thanks for the testing!

 

[Esker]

Hey esker really like it. three things for debugging when you get around to it.
1. seems Booming blade has no +dmg effect if there is no class 2 "other full caster" of at least lvl1. i tested BB with lhs fighter 4 rhs paladin 4 and rhs fighter 4 lhs fighter 4. no other settings changed, both scenarios there is no change selecting BB on either RHS or LHS. if you change to a dual wield build and select BB it does however drop the dmg.
2. rhs class 3 must be set to mirror,, any other setting results in an error.
3. Greataxe is not benefiting from GWM calculation as it is not listed as heavy weapon

cheers,

The Greataxe should be properly "heavy" now, and the class 3 bug should be fixed.

I changed the interface a little bit to only display additional class options if you've made a selection for the previous one, and to hide the other options for feats, etc. if "mirror" is selected, to avoid confusion there --- now that I know how to make the UI layout dynamic, it should make adding subclasses, etc. a lot cleaner.

Chryssis, does BB work as expected for you if you raise character level to 5 or above?

 

[Blue]

Really nice so far.

Is there any way to see where it's getting the numbers? For example a Fighter 4->5 has a much bigger jump in GWM damage than a Barbarian of the same levels.

If you are taking feature requests, I'd love to add in Bless and other static modifiers like magic weapons.

 

[Esker]

Really nice so far.

Thanks!

Is there any way to see where it's getting the numbers?

Yes! At least to an extent; there's a checkbox under Display Settings to show internal variables, which will display a big table of things below the graph, including attack and damage modifiers, number of attacks per round, attack actions and bonus action attack per day, etc. Please do let me know if you find settings that produce values there that don't seem correct.

For example a Fighter 4->5 has a much bigger jump in GWM damage than a Barbarian of the same levels.

I'm not currently seeing this, but I don't know what exact settings you're using; it's entirely possible there's a bug somewhere. What weapon configuration and other options are you looking at? How many rounds per day and short rests per day do you have set?

The only difference right now between selecting fighter and barbarian is that fighter has action surge automatically included in the average based on the rounds and short rests you input, and barbarian has an option to turn on rage (it's not averaged across the day yet; just a toggle). So if rage is not turned on (and you don't set a high advantage % for the barb to reflect reckless attack) then the fighter will have an edge, but it shouldn't be huge unless you have a very small number of rounds per day, or a large number of short rests.

If you are taking feature requests, I'd love to add in Bless and other static modifiers like magic weapons.

Good idea. I'm currently in the middle of a refactor to allow various generic damage dice bonuses to be added in with various uses available (ranging from every hit to once per round, to a fixed number of times per rest), but an attack bonus is easy to add as well, and I will probably add static bonuses also. For now though you can simulate a basic +X magic weapon through the starting ability score slider and ASI checkboxes, bumping your attack stat to a max of 24.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

This is cool...but I must be missing something. Hand crossbow seems to be the best weapon. And Pure fighter seems the most consistent output throughout the levels and the best dpr at 20th. Maybe I'm not using the tool correctly.

 

[NotAYakk]

This is cool...but I must be missing something. Hand crossbow seems to be the best weapon. And Pure fighter seems the most consistent output throughout the levels and the best dpr at 20th. Maybe I'm not using the tool correctly.

Try a polearm with GWM and PAM.

But yes, taps+gwm are crazy good.

But you can beat fighter 20. Barb 9/Fighter 11 (champion), GWM, PAM, -5/+10 100% reckless advantage vs Fighter 20 (mirror) ~30% advantage wins.

5/4 attacks is 25%, but reliable reckless and -5/+10 works really well together.

 

[Esker]

This is cool...but I must be missing something. Hand crossbow seems to be the best weapon. And Pure fighter seems the most consistent output throughout the levels and the best dpr at 20th. Maybe I'm not using the tool correctly.

Hand crossbow is a good choice with crossbow expert, since the bonus action attack is generally worth more than the bigger damage dice from a longbow, etc. I'm not currently enforcing the loading property without the feat, fwiw, though it'd be an easy thing to add. Even so, I think you can find higher DPR combinations (Fighter X / Barb 2 with PAM+GWM and a and setting advantage to 100% to represent reckless attack does better than Fighter 20 with all the archery fixins --- and really I suppose at that point you probably may as well do Fighter 11 / Barb 2 / Paladin X or something to put some smites on there); though when I add precision attack from Battlemaster I expect that will change)

I'm definitely interested in cases that don't seem to work as expected though, so if you think a gap is larger than it should be, or something doesn't add up the way it should, please let me know (with the specific settings you are using) so I can find bugs.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

ok, I see how reckless attack increases damage output at the higher ACs. I've never understood how Crossbow expert allowed for high damage output because I always felt you needed a free hand to load the crossbow so I never really considered it. But that's a subject for another thread (or has been the subject of countless threads)

I also noticed that Fighter outperforms rogue in all instances - mostly because of the lack of fighting styles. So it seems that a rogue must make a 1 level dip in fighter to increase performance.

On a separate note (and stop me if this isn't the place to talk about it), do melee tend to outperform casters in DPR or are there too many variables to compare? I only ask because, not even an hour before I found this thread, my son was telling me fighters can't really do a lot of damage at 20th level compared to a wizard and I had no way to demonstrate that fighters were good at damage output. I guess the other thing to consider is this is comparing single target damage.

Adding Sentinel in there to add reaction attacks would be interesting.

 

[NotAYakk]

ok, I see how reckless attack increases damage output at the higher ACs. I've never understood how Crossbow expert allowed for high damage output because I always felt you needed a free hand to load the crossbow so I never really considered it. But that's a subject for another thread (or has been the subject of countless threads)

XBE says "if you attack with a weapon, you can make an attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action".

The weapon that triggers the bonus action attack... can also be a hand crossbow. The SAME hand crossbow.

So you use a hand crossbow, and a hand free. The free hand reloads the hand crossbow. Loading a weapon is part of its attack. You may need to use your free object interaction to have it loaded before you do your bonus action attack.

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Magic-item less martial DPR in 5e is about taps times damage per tap.

SS or GWM boosts your damage per tap.

XBE or PAM boosts your taps.

The +10 from GWM/SS overwealms die size.

Now, a polearm (1d10 main, 1d4 bonus) is better than a hand xbow (1d6 main, 1d6 bonus), but only marginally.

Melee weapon's main edge on ranged weapons is the existence of girdles of giant strength, which permit strength over 20, and flametongue weapons. There is no equivalent for dex builds.

Ranged weapons get magic arrows.

A flametongue polearm is 12.5 main/9.5 bonus at +0 to hit. Throw on 29 strength girdle (+9/+9) and GWM (-5/+10) and you are at +10/(31.5/28.5) ATK/damage, plus a few points from GWF style.

A +3 hand crossbow with +3 bolts is 9.5 main/9.5 bonus at +6 to hit. 20 dex (+5/+5) and SS (-5/+10) and archery (+2) style you are at +14/24.5.

A fighter's attack round is then +10 to hit for a total of 154.5 damage on polearm, or +14 to hit for a total of 122.5 on hand crossbow.

Note that flametongue compared to a +3 weapon is a -3 to hit for +4 to damage. It acts like a "mini -5/+10" trade of accuracy for damage, but is less efficient. It is also as rare as a +2 weapon, so it is more like -2 to hit for +5 to damage, which is a better ratio than -5/+10. It also deals extra crit damage.

So the XBow has very rare hand xbow and many, many consumable very rare +3 arrows. The melee build has a legendary girdle and a rare polearm.

There isn't a +damage weapon on the scale of a +3 weapon (very rare); in theory it could deal +3d6 damage (10.5) for -3 to hit for +7.5 to damage.


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The Barb9/Fighter11 version drops from 5 to 4 swings in exchange for increased accuracy and crit chance on those swings (plus some crit damage and flat damage from rage).

This makes the penalty to-hit from GWM less important, and lands more taps. But a girdle of giant strength also does this almost as well.