Pathfinder 2E Another Deadly Session, and It's Getting Old

[Thomas Shey]

They reran the same encounter that was previously a TPK. So it went from a TPK to a cakewalk with some guidance and one extra level.

Which could just mean it was a middle-of-the-road encounter for the prior level, and a combination of not paying attention and bad die rolls did them in then.

 

[Retreater]

Which could just mean it was a middle-of-the-road encounter for the prior level, and a combination of not paying attention and bad die rolls did them in then.

And how I ran it against the intent of the module design and fine print of PF2. Separating the hazard from the second encounter, having the same type of creatures go on the same initiative, etc.

 

[Thomas Shey]

And how I ran it against the intent of the module design and fine print of PF2. Separating the hazard from the second encounter, having the same type of creatures go on the same initiative, etc.

I have to admit having anything but really minor opponents all go at one initiative almost always makes them stronger, in virtually every system. I understand the urge to do it (its easier after all) but its really only necessary in systems where you're going to be using a large number of opponents (and PF2e doesn't run in that direction much).

 

[dave2008]

Which could just mean it was a middle-of-the-road encounter for the prior level, and a combination of not paying attention and bad die rolls did them in then.

I assume you've read the thread, as it has been pretty thoroughly explained. I don't feel the need to discuss it further.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I assume you've read the thread, as it has been pretty thoroughly explained. I don't feel the need to discuss it further.

If you're asking did I read the earlier part in enough detail that I'm aware of exactly which encounter this was a replay of, no.

 

[dave2008]

If you're asking did I read the earlier part in enough detail that I'm aware of exactly which encounter this was a replay of, no.

Oh, ok - the OP eventually gave a detail account of the encounter and others described how this encounter can easily be a TPK as written it the creatures in the adjacent room are alerted, which they where. The trap itself is apparently a bit difficult straight up as well. Of course this was just one data point as I believe it was the 3rd TPK in five sessions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Ah, that was one of the "don't lump two encounters together and expect it to go well" lessons.

I've got a serious question for other people in the thread; in any game system you've played in, have you ever found that if you have two encounters that are even moderately intended to be a challenge that having them roll-up into one bigger encounter is likely to go well? I can't really think of one myself.

 

[Retreater]

Ah, that was one of the "don't lump two encounters together and expect it to go well" lessons.

I've got a serious question for other people in the thread; in any game system you've played in, have you ever found that if you have two encounters that are even moderately intended to be a challenge that having them roll-up into one bigger encounter is likely to go well? I can't really think of one myself.

Two "moderate" challenges (as these were listed in the adventure) against a fully healed party with full casting potential, I would expect it to not be a TPK within a couple rounds. Especially when it is the second adventure in the inaugural module series for a flagship TTRPG line and the module text actually suggests the two encounters should be run at the same time, that common sense and verisimilitude would suggest that if someone triggered a trap on the door you are guarding that you should probably open the door and try to defend the rest of the headquarters that is under attack.

The only thing that made this a "well, duh" moment is metagame knowledge and that the GM should know that the system cannot handle reasonable responses and rational actions from enemies.

This is probably the only modern system I've run that had such a quick TPK that there was no hope of escape, changing tactics, etc.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Ah, that was one of the "don't lump two encounters together and expect it to go well" lessons.

I've got a serious question for other people in the thread; in any game system you've played in, have you ever found that if you have two encounters that are even moderately intended to be a challenge that having them roll-up into one bigger encounter is likely to go well? I can't really think of one myself.

Yes, I have multiple experiences across many systems where the party has aggroed more than one encounter at a time and has lived to tell the tale.

Particularly in cases where monsters are in adjacent rooms (or like here, where monsters are adjacent to a room with a trap), the possibility exists that the players will pull more than one encounter at a time. In fact, it seems weird to me to design encounters where monsters shouldn’t react to stuff going on near them because that will overwhelm the party.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Two "moderate" challenges (as these were listed in the adventure) against a fully healed party with full casting potential, I would expect it to not be a TPK within a couple rounds. Especially when it is the second adventure in the inaugural module series for a flagship TTRPG line and the module text actually suggests the two encounters should be run at the same time, that common sense and verisimilitude would suggest that if someone triggered a trap on the door you are guarding that you should probably open the door and try to defend the rest of the headquarters that is under attack.

I wouldn't expect it to be (but wouldn't be shocked if it was). And honestly, as a rule of thumb, inaugural module series are the ones most likely to be messed up in balance; ask people about the first series of modules for D&D 4e sometime.

The only thing that made this a "well, duh" moment is metagame knowledge and that the GM should know that the system cannot handle reasonable responses and rational actions from enemies.

This is probably the only modern system I've run that had such a quick TPK that there was no hope of escape, changing tactics, etc.

As I've noted before, I'm not sure what BRP derived system would have you roll two encounters together without the risk of that going badly and without much time to figure that out. And it would be entirely possible with Savage Worlds. Which doesn't mean there aren't problems with that series, as I've noted; I'm just puzzled by the idea that making two "moderate" encounters into one single encounter isn't likely to be a problem, because in the majority of games I know of, it very much would be (all the way back to OD&D).