D&D 5E Tasha’s cauldron character thread

[Oofta]

I think that would fall under this paragraph from the PHB: "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature's thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise."

There is some debate over whether having to make a saving throw is enough to tip you off that you were targeted, but hex does not grant a saving throw. You might notice when you have to make an ability check and mysteriously have disadvantage. However, you don't normally roll Perception to detect a stealthy creature--the stealthy creature makes a check against your passive Perception--and of course, by the time you roll initiative, you're starting combat anyway.


It may start initiative, but it certainly does not start combat if the target doesn't even know it was hexed.

This is why I hate, hate, hate "rolling for initiative" being an in-game event that can be manipulated and trigger other events. It leads to all kinds of weird questions over what exactly causes the roll and when you roll again. If I sneak up to an enemy camp, hex the big bad, sneak away, and take a short rest to get my spell slot back before combat (maintaining hex through the rest), is there a new initiative roll when we come back? What if the big bad gets wind of our presence and attacks us while we're resting? Has my hex inoculated the party against "rolls initiative" triggers from the enemy?

If someone is not aware they are surprised, but initiative still starts. As far as the rest, it depends on how the DM handles hex and concentration in general which is a whole separate topic.

 

[Flamestrike]

You might notice when you have to make an ability check and mysteriously have disadvantage.

No, the question is how does it feel to the character? If I Hex your Strength do you suddenly feel weakened or if I Hex your Intelligence are you suddenly unable to think clearly?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think the character is just really, really into bows.

Sure, but you've picked a 'race' that's not specifically 'human'. I mean, you absolutely could just call him "a human with great night vision who loves bows"... but that's pretty boring.

If I were your DM, I might say "You're using your 'build-your-own race' options to grab bow features, so what makes your race good at bows?"

I mean, you can do whatever you like, of course.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

No, the question is how does it feel to the character? If I Hex your Strength do you suddenly feel weakened or if I Hex your Intelligence are you suddenly unable to think clearly?

I would say absolutely. I can't imagine something that would impair any of your abilities by 2 (not considered insignificant) that you wouldn't notice. You might not know that it was Hex specifically that's messing you up, but you'd definitely feel "off".

Hex is VSM, too, so it's not like whatever the caster is doing is super subtle or anything, so unless they were hiding and whispering (in a place that was otherwise loud), then I think you'd absolutely know that the caster just hit you with a whammy that makes you feel woozy.

People are free to rule otherwise in their games, of course, but I can't think of too many scenarios where I'd let someone start casting Hex at a target without considering it the start of an encounter.

On the other hand, If the player Hexed Dex as the first thing of the encounter expecting to lower the target's initiative, I'd let it work though, because that would make the player happy. Happy players is good. Also, it's cool (done occasionally). I'd probably get sick of it if they spammed the trick, though.

 

[Dausuul]

If someone is not aware they are surprised, but initiative still starts. As far as the rest, it depends on how the DM handles hex and concentration in general which is a whole separate topic.

But there's no combat. Surprise is irrelevant, because no one is fighting. If you roll initiative but there is no combat, when does initiative get re-rolled? How long do you stay "in initiative order" when nothing is happening?

This is why "rolls initiative" as a discrete event is a bad mechanic.

 

[Flamestrike]

But there's no combat. Surprise is irrelevant, because no one is fighting. If you roll initiative but there is no combat, when does initiative get re-rolled? How long do you stay "in initiative order" when nothing is happening?

This is why "rolls initiative" as a discrete event is a bad mechanic.

Exactly. In a situation where someone is doing something imperceptible from hiding (subtle spell for example) and the target has no way of knowing, then initiative isn't really needed is it?

If the DM thinks the action could be perceptible (firing an arrow), or turn sequencing is otherwise important, then you roll initiative.

 

[Dausuul]

I would say absolutely. I can't imagine something that would impair any of your abilities by 2 (not considered insignificant) that you wouldn't notice. You might not know that it was Hex specifically that's messing you up, but you'd definitely feel "off".

"Weakened" isn't a physical sensation that people have. We "feel weakened" when we try to do something and find it harder than we're used to. If you're not trying to do something, there's no reason for you to detect anything off.

That's why I would say you notice it when the disadvantage kicks in--when you actually try to make a check. If you're under a Strength hex, you won't feel it sitting around a campfire, but you will when you try to lift a heavy burden or wrestle a foe. If you're under an Intelligence hex, you'll notice it when you try to do something requiring focused thought or precise recall. Et cetera.

Hex is VSM, too, so it's not like whatever the caster is doing is super subtle or anything, so unless they were hiding and whispering (in a place that was otherwise loud), then I think you'd absolutely know that the caster just hit you with a whammy that makes you feel woozy.

We are talking about taking hex as one of an Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery spells, so it has no components.

 

[Flamestrike]

"Weakened" isn't a physical sensation that people have. We "feel weakened" when we try to do something and find it harder than we're used to.

No, when you have the flu, or have just finished your final set of 10 reps, or your exhausted or whatever. You feel weakened, and you can tell.

Your muscles arent working as well as they should, and your body lets your mind know about it.

 

[Oofta]

But there's no combat. Surprise is irrelevant, because no one is fighting. If you roll initiative but there is no combat, when does initiative get re-rolled? How long do you stay "in initiative order" when nothing is happening?

This is why "rolls initiative" as a discrete event is a bad mechanic.

When combat starts is up to the DM. I rule that any aggressive action starts combat. Hex is an aggressive action therefore combat starts. Combat could end if your PC sneaks away if they were never detected.

For the combat that gets initiated by the hex, the target's initiative is unaffected. If the hexer succeeds on a stealth check and can cast a spell with V/S/M components within 90 feet and line of sight to their target and casting a spell doesn't give them away and they can leave without ever being noticed then it might come into play on the start of the next encounter.

On the other hand I also rule that you can't concentrate over a period of rest but that's because I use the alternate rules where you have to sleep overnight to get a short rest.

I really don't see what this has to do with the thread topic or anything even adjacent to it ... if you want to continue feel free to start a different thread but I'm not going to pursue this tangent any further.

 

[Seramus]

I suppose the victim can use their passive insight to get bad vibes from you. Subject to your own rolls to keep them unaware (including not being visible).